Coauthor of D2 here. Lately I've been noodling on the idea of expanding the animation capabilities. I think out loud a bit here, and if you have thoughts, would love to hear them:
What is the purpose of those animations? If I could use them in a presentation where I click through a diagram adding things as i click and their connections being animated for highlight then sure. I don’t really like the example where the text changes in you link, the whole diagram jumping around just because a text changes seems like something that would be annoying. So I guess you would need to render everything and keep some things hidden until activated?!
As a side not, I would love a proper Swimlane-diagram. I think you have all the building blocks with your ability to nest things in flowcharts, just need to force-align some boxes in different swimlanes and align the lanes themselves (and probably a lot more behind the scenes).
The purpose is to make use of a dimension of the visual space previously unused to make diagrams more expressive.
Even if it's something simple like a node turning from green to red to convey it's shutting down. Maybe something like that before animations would be a text saying, "this node will shut down now", which takes reading/zooming into text.
I also think it can, if used well, result in diagrams that ⋆⋆spark joy⋆⋆. People like to see diagrams like that, even if it's not more utilitarian. I think sketch mode is an example of this. It changes the font to an objectively less readable one, yet I often hear people make all their D2 diagrams in sketch mode.
Hi Alixander! I started using D2 just a couple months ago -- the first time I had to design a system at work. I'm really happy with it -- I was amazed how easy it was to pick up.
TBH, I don't think these fancy animations are necessary. If I want to call attention to a certain box or arrow in the diagram, I would rather turn it red than have anything moving.
There's another HN discussion going, about declarative diagramming [0], from where I learned about Ilograph [1]. And which makes great use of animations for system documentation.
I think diagrams are opinionated. I’d like to show animations instead of just colors. Data flow for example. Yes arrows help, but animations help better. It is all about personal preference. There is no right or wrong.
First of all, thanks for your work on D2, it is the coolest of them all IMHO. I would definitely use animations because management loves shiny things and if they are happy I get my salary bumped.
I have recently made a solution for dynamically codifying the network layout of AWS accounts with D2. D2 was the only solution that was allowing to render a lot of objects without having to fight the engine with tons of hints. My only complaint was/is that the sdk/d2lib was very under-documented, so initially I started off with generating text as a map before realizing that there is a better way that is barely used. It took me some time to figure out how to use the lib for the trickier parts.
I would share it, but BigCorp would come after me. It is nothing terribly smart really. I am using steampipe to list all the regions for VPC/Subnets/NAT GW/IGW/[everything else networky] and loop through the list adding nodes to the diagram. There is a long list of accounts which all gets generated and committed in a git repo. The big challenge was to make it all readable instead of making a mess.
I know this is a big request, but lately I've been using LLMs to quickly draft and showcase architecture decision. I mainly fallback to mermaid, but I am curious if d2 would be more flexible? I usually endup visualizing anyway with drawio. I am curious if there are plans on creating a more user friendly interface (mcp, or tool calling feature) with llms.
There’s also PlantUML, which is much more featureful than Mermaid but can’t use JS to render text to a diagram in-browser. There is a server that you could use JS to load images from.
I haven’t used prompts to generate diagrams, but Cursors autocomplete seems to recognize the syntax at least.
* Reveal.js style declaration for "keyframe 1", declaration for "keyframe 2" and then automatic animation/transition between the two. Animation "themes" of fade in/out, pop in/out of nodes. I like the arrow "growing" theme from the article but would also see cases where I want the nodes to appear first and the arrows grow to them, and also a case where the arrow grows and the nodes appear at the end.
* Impress js zoom, movement, focus
I would like to use animations to help me communicate something or to make my point. I'm not necessarily looking to spark joy - I'd very much see that as a "nice to have" (i.e. for each or the above make the defaults pretty).
I'm a bit surprised at the first "cool slop" example, I'd expect a "more tangible" (by way of animation) data flow visualization to be useful rather than fluff. Though since it's not dynamic (it's not based on live data or anything), maybe that's why it'd be superfluous?
On the example animation not all paths are taken, so that is one bit of extra information that the animation does provide. Though even if it was fully identical, I do find it considerably easier to see where the data is moving based on dots tracing out a path than I do by scanning for small arrows in a massive diagram, hence my confusion on this. Fair point though.
I am late to the party, but let me add my grain of salt. I think animations could be a killer feature when preparing for talks. This is something I already do with a modified version of graphviz (I explain my workflow below) and d2 seems to have almost all functionalities I need to adapt it but one (the one I had to add to graphviz): hardcoding custom HTML attributes in the generated SVG for animation purposes.
Let me explain: I have been using revealjs for making slides for a while now. The way "animation" is dealt with here is really interesting: html blocks having the "fragment" class will be visited with a class "current-fragment" and "fragment-visited" one after the other. One can then play with the animation using CSS, eg, .fragment is not displayed but .fragment.current-fragment and .fragment.fragment-visited are displayed. Hence, moving through slides allows to display new content in the slides. Nothing prevents it to work on inlined svg and I can use d2 to create diagrams with nodes/edges having the fragment class and revealjs will incrementally make them appear.
I am however missing something here. Revealjs visits fragments by walking the DOM. Hence the animation depends on the order the diagram is generated in. Moreover, it is impossible to make several nodes appear together (or you need them in the same sub-diagram). Revealjs has a nice workaround: you can add a data-fragment-index attributes in your tag. Nodes will then be visited by following the fragment-index order. Being able to just add indices to the fragment in d2 would be enough to completely animate the diagram using revealjs without any overhead, by just inlining the generated svg into the slides.
I actually do that with graphviz already, where I slightly modified the source to that I can add a data-fragment-index in nodes/edges, which allows me to animate diagrams, see [1] for example for a recent animation I did for a talk.
I guess I could do this in d2 too, but since you are expressing an interest in animation, let me tell you that just being able to specify an order in which blocks are visited and that this is performed via css modification is an extremely powerful approach (you can not only make things appear/disappear, you can also change colors for highlighting or anything you can think of that is doable in css ; changing sizes is a bit of an adventure though as you may fall into inconsistent drawing). Moreover, if you use the fragment/data-fragment-index terminology, you would directly be compatible with revealjs, which could be a really nice combination (though, there are some shortcomings with revealjs regarding fragments index which is why I now use a homecooked [2], minimal version of the same idea ; like having more than one index for a block, or being forced to use numbers for index where 1a 1b 1c would be more interesting to "insert" transition between two existing ones without having to renumber).
Let me just conclude with an example. I would love to be able to write this in d2, to make the edge "CONNECT" appears and the "info" node at the first transition:
Put me in the camp of “animation is valuable even when it’s redundant information.” Guiding the eye and helping to digest information is valuable, and even the slop examples are useful in my opinion
I have been looking at things like D2 and Penrose, trying to wrap Python around them to make it a bit easier to script up diagrams based on data.
Working through the problem I realize I probably would have a better time with something like Haskell but I do think the lower the barrier to entry is for drawing up stuff with these tools the more people will reach for programmatic diagramming to help debug and explain things.
The biggest problem with most of the declarative tools like D2,dot,mermaid etc is that they tend to not really offer "declare, then tweak" workflows. You can of course generate some SVG and then tweak it in Inkscape, but sometimes you just want to move something a bit after layout, constraints be damned.
Penrose makes that easier, at the cost of ... I guess everything else being weirder and randomized.
Looking at the syntax, I wonder how close one could get to it in a "normal" programming language.
x -> y: hello world
declares a connection between two
shapes, x and y, with the label,
hello world
When I read this, I see this Python line in my mind:
connect('x', 'y', 'hello world')
This is of course a lot longer. The reason is that D2 seems to rather use operators than functions. So another approach could be
'x' * 'y' + 'hello world'
This would be possible to implement if the language supports overloading the __add__ and __mul__ functions of the str class. Python does not support it though. So I guess one would have to put at least one instance of a custom class into the mix. Say 'scene', then one might be able to achieve the above with this line:
scene + 'x' * 'y' + 'hello world'
Meaning "Put a connection between x and y with label 'hello world' into the scene".
Hmm.. also not very close to the D2 syntax. So a DSL for diagrams seems to be warranted.
In Scala you can do it, because you can define your own operators (which are nothing but method names), and you can extend types you don't control. You are a bit constrained by the operator precedence rules, but it's usually good enough.
It's bad practice to make DSLs left and right, obviously. But when one is warranted, you can.
Not all "normal languages" (or even "dynamic scripting languages") are created equal. While I wouldn't want to aim for something equivalent to the whole d2 syntax as an internal DSL in Ruby, if you wanted to just create edges with optional labels with a syntax where "bare" edges are:
x >> y
and edges with labels are:
x >> y << "hello world"
you can do it like this:
class Diagram
def initialize
@nodes = Hash.new { |h, k| h[k] = Node.new(self, k) }
@edges = {}
end
def node(name)
@nodes[name]
end
def add_edge(edge)
@edges[edge.from_node] ||= {}
@edges[edge.from_node][edge.to_node] = edge
end
def all_edges
@edges.values.flat_map(&:values)
end
def interpret &block
interpreter = D2.new(self)
interpreter.instance_eval(&block)
self
end
def to_s
all_edges.map(&:to_s)
end
def inspect
to_s
end
end
class D2
def initialize(diagram = nil)
@diagram = diagram || Diagram.new
end
def method_missing(name, *args)
@diagram.node(name)
end
end
class Node
def initialize(diagram, name)
@diagram = diagram
@name = name
end
def >>(other_node)
Edge.new(self, other_node).tap do |edge|
@diagram.add_edge(edge)
end
end
def to_s
@name
end
def inspect
"Node(#{to_s})"
end
end
class Edge
def initialize(from_node, to_node, label = nil)
@from_node = from_node
@to_node = to_node
@label = label
end
def <<(label)
@label = label
end
def from_node
@from_node
end
def to_node
@to_node
end
def to_s
"#{@from_node.to_s} -> #{@to_node.to_s}" + (@label ? ":#@label" : "")
end
def inspect
"Edge(#{to_s})"
end
end
And use it like this:
irb(main):090:0> d = Diagram.new
=> []
irb(main):091:1* d.interpret {
irb(main):092:1* x >> y << "hello, world!"
irb(main):093:1* y >> z << "goodbye, cruel world!"
irb(main):094:0> }
=> ["x -> y:hello, world!", "y -> z:goodbye, cruel world!"]
OF course, this only supports a trivial subset of the functionality, and only "renders" it to a text form more like the original d2 syntax. But it does create an object model from the DSL in the Diagram class for which you could build a renderer.
I love D2; I just wish ELK were the default layout engine; it is extremely rare that Dagre does a better job than ELK, and it took me a while using D2 before I discovered the layout-engine property.
The proprietary/commercial TALA engine is really excellent too. I’ve been using it to do complex dataflow diagrams, and the results are so incredibly well laid out.
In particular we'll have a DAG and then add nodes and edges to it, and then remove some and so on... It would be nice to visualize these changes. We currently use graphviz, but it's not "stable" so a diagram jumps around a lot when we look at snapshot to snapshot...
If (1) we could guarantee some kind of stability and (2) if we could even animate the transitions, that would be incredibly useful for visualization.
Love d2, using it for years. I use it whenever someone asks me to create a visualisation. And I regularly tell people about d2 trying to push it internally haha
Enterprise is way too expensive though. And I can't natively render it anywhere. So I'm limited to only personal use.
3000usd / year for a single TALA license is... Well, not justifiable. And I'm not sure how much d2 studio is on top...
I'd love to test TALA though, but even the personal license at 120usd is steep for drawing some stuff.
Just giving a helm chart or system description to an llm and having it one shot a perfect diagram which code I can easily view and edit is also a big gamechanger for me
Sucks to not have it just render natively anywhere, I think confluence cloud can do it. But I think the add on is a paid addon.
D2 has a lot of merits but there’s little that sells it over PlantUML or Mermaid - I do feel like diagrams-as-code is still waiting for a killer program that makes everything else obsolete.
I’m forever chasing that dragon. In the meantime I still recommend D2 if PUML is feeling a bit stale.
Same, I spend an inordinate amount of time in mermaid, and I just can't see a reason for D2 over Mermaid especially when you can write a single Markdown doc and jump in between code, prose and diagrams as simply as
- d2 is a standalone executable compiler, I once tried mermaid-cli (mmdc) but couldn't get it to work properly plus anything I need to install with npm scares the hell out of me
- ASCII rendering: I love rendering to ASCII which I can copy-paste around.
But I do use mermaid a lot embedded in other programs (e.g Obisidian). The selection of different diagram types is amazing.
This is Markdown with embedded Mermaid with Markdown inside the box named foo. In VS Code, links are opened in editor. In Jetbrains it unfortunately opens in browser.
I don't know exactly but none of the diagram building languages I've used have been a great experience. I guess they just feel "rough in the hands" somehow to me. There's always some point of frustration I get to with the layout systems. They're essential for quickly visualizing graph structures and such but even smaller hand authored ones end up feeling unwieldy too. Can't put it in to works but it feels like there could be a major improvement beyond what even D2 studio offers, when it comes to the language and workflow around it.
> I guess they just feel "rough in the hands" somehow to me.
I'd be curious to know if Ilograph is among the languages you've tried and if you feel the same way (I'm the author). Making it feel good to edit (the opposite of "rough in the hands"?) is an explicit goal, and to that end there is an IDE with context-aware autocomplete.
D2 has been around for a while (and has been posted here before) but still surprisingly unknown. It's so much better than mermaid – giving them a boost with this post!
last time i was installing mermaid with npm, noted that installation lasts too long. i checked and found that it is installing headless chrome under the hood...
I just want prettier default diagrams in d2, the default theme (and other ones) is a hard sell to orgs where management isn't technical. Something similar to the Obsidian diagram theme
I chose D2 as for our AI's "generate diagram" tool in https://zo.computer and it works quite well. I think the fact that D2 is more expressive than Mermaid is a useful property when doing AI-aided diagram generation.
Coauthor of D2 here. Lately I've been noodling on the idea of expanding the animation capabilities. I think out loud a bit here, and if you have thoughts, would love to hear them:
https://github.com/terrastruct/d2/discussions/2677
What is the purpose of those animations? If I could use them in a presentation where I click through a diagram adding things as i click and their connections being animated for highlight then sure. I don’t really like the example where the text changes in you link, the whole diagram jumping around just because a text changes seems like something that would be annoying. So I guess you would need to render everything and keep some things hidden until activated?!
As a side not, I would love a proper Swimlane-diagram. I think you have all the building blocks with your ability to nest things in flowcharts, just need to force-align some boxes in different swimlanes and align the lanes themselves (and probably a lot more behind the scenes).
The purpose is to make use of a dimension of the visual space previously unused to make diagrams more expressive.
Even if it's something simple like a node turning from green to red to convey it's shutting down. Maybe something like that before animations would be a text saying, "this node will shut down now", which takes reading/zooming into text.
I also think it can, if used well, result in diagrams that ⋆⋆spark joy⋆⋆. People like to see diagrams like that, even if it's not more utilitarian. I think sketch mode is an example of this. It changes the font to an objectively less readable one, yet I often hear people make all their D2 diagrams in sketch mode.
Hi Alixander! I started using D2 just a couple months ago -- the first time I had to design a system at work. I'm really happy with it -- I was amazed how easy it was to pick up.
TBH, I don't think these fancy animations are necessary. If I want to call attention to a certain box or arrow in the diagram, I would rather turn it red than have anything moving.
There's another HN discussion going, about declarative diagramming [0], from where I learned about Ilograph [1]. And which makes great use of animations for system documentation.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45706792
[1] https://www.ilograph.com/features.html
I think diagrams are opinionated. I’d like to show animations instead of just colors. Data flow for example. Yes arrows help, but animations help better. It is all about personal preference. There is no right or wrong.
What if that style is already used though? (e.g. other connections are red)
Well, in any case, I would make it a contrasting color.
First of all, thanks for your work on D2, it is the coolest of them all IMHO. I would definitely use animations because management loves shiny things and if they are happy I get my salary bumped.
I have recently made a solution for dynamically codifying the network layout of AWS accounts with D2. D2 was the only solution that was allowing to render a lot of objects without having to fight the engine with tons of hints. My only complaint was/is that the sdk/d2lib was very under-documented, so initially I started off with generating text as a map before realizing that there is a better way that is barely used. It took me some time to figure out how to use the lib for the trickier parts.
Would love to see that shared in github/lab if you’re allowed.
I would share it, but BigCorp would come after me. It is nothing terribly smart really. I am using steampipe to list all the regions for VPC/Subnets/NAT GW/IGW/[everything else networky] and loop through the list adding nodes to the diagram. There is a long list of accounts which all gets generated and committed in a git repo. The big challenge was to make it all readable instead of making a mess.
I know this is a big request, but lately I've been using LLMs to quickly draft and showcase architecture decision. I mainly fallback to mermaid, but I am curious if d2 would be more flexible? I usually endup visualizing anyway with drawio. I am curious if there are plans on creating a more user friendly interface (mcp, or tool calling feature) with llms.
There’s also PlantUML, which is much more featureful than Mermaid but can’t use JS to render text to a diagram in-browser. There is a server that you could use JS to load images from.
I haven’t used prompts to generate diagrams, but Cursors autocomplete seems to recognize the syntax at least.
I would be interested in this as well, but would love it to be more like openapi protocol, with an agents.md.
Level 4 - dramatic mode ;) https://blog.viraptor.info/dramatic-svg/index.html
I love this hahah. Diagrams as a comic book.
The urge to add silly stuff like this vs working on v2 of sequence diagram that has much more demand is often tempting.
Thoughts on Animations:
* Reveal.js style declaration for "keyframe 1", declaration for "keyframe 2" and then automatic animation/transition between the two. Animation "themes" of fade in/out, pop in/out of nodes. I like the arrow "growing" theme from the article but would also see cases where I want the nodes to appear first and the arrows grow to them, and also a case where the arrow grows and the nodes appear at the end.
* Impress js zoom, movement, focus
I would like to use animations to help me communicate something or to make my point. I'm not necessarily looking to spark joy - I'd very much see that as a "nice to have" (i.e. for each or the above make the defaults pretty).
You get this when transitioning boards in our hosted platform (try clicking): https://d2studio.ai/diagrams/664641071
I don't add this for D2 CLI because the outputs there are SVG, and this feature requires Javascript.
I'm a bit surprised at the first "cool slop" example, I'd expect a "more tangible" (by way of animation) data flow visualization to be useful rather than fluff. Though since it's not dynamic (it's not based on live data or anything), maybe that's why it'd be superfluous?
It's superfluous because the arrow already points in a direction; the line animation doesn't tell you anything the arrowhead doesn't.
On the example animation not all paths are taken, so that is one bit of extra information that the animation does provide. Though even if it was fully identical, I do find it considerably easier to see where the data is moving based on dots tracing out a path than I do by scanning for small arrows in a massive diagram, hence my confusion on this. Fair point though.
This would be super useful for my project
Hi Alixander
Thanks for the good work!
I am late to the party, but let me add my grain of salt. I think animations could be a killer feature when preparing for talks. This is something I already do with a modified version of graphviz (I explain my workflow below) and d2 seems to have almost all functionalities I need to adapt it but one (the one I had to add to graphviz): hardcoding custom HTML attributes in the generated SVG for animation purposes.
Let me explain: I have been using revealjs for making slides for a while now. The way "animation" is dealt with here is really interesting: html blocks having the "fragment" class will be visited with a class "current-fragment" and "fragment-visited" one after the other. One can then play with the animation using CSS, eg, .fragment is not displayed but .fragment.current-fragment and .fragment.fragment-visited are displayed. Hence, moving through slides allows to display new content in the slides. Nothing prevents it to work on inlined svg and I can use d2 to create diagrams with nodes/edges having the fragment class and revealjs will incrementally make them appear.
I am however missing something here. Revealjs visits fragments by walking the DOM. Hence the animation depends on the order the diagram is generated in. Moreover, it is impossible to make several nodes appear together (or you need them in the same sub-diagram). Revealjs has a nice workaround: you can add a data-fragment-index attributes in your tag. Nodes will then be visited by following the fragment-index order. Being able to just add indices to the fragment in d2 would be enough to completely animate the diagram using revealjs without any overhead, by just inlining the generated svg into the slides.
I actually do that with graphviz already, where I slightly modified the source to that I can add a data-fragment-index in nodes/edges, which allows me to animate diagrams, see [1] for example for a recent animation I did for a talk.
I guess I could do this in d2 too, but since you are expressing an interest in animation, let me tell you that just being able to specify an order in which blocks are visited and that this is performed via css modification is an extremely powerful approach (you can not only make things appear/disappear, you can also change colors for highlighting or anything you can think of that is doable in css ; changing sizes is a bit of an adventure though as you may fall into inconsistent drawing). Moreover, if you use the fragment/data-fragment-index terminology, you would directly be compatible with revealjs, which could be a really nice combination (though, there are some shortcomings with revealjs regarding fragments index which is why I now use a homecooked [2], minimal version of the same idea ; like having more than one index for a block, or being forced to use numbers for index where 1a 1b 1c would be more interesting to "insert" transition between two existing ones without having to renumber).
Let me just conclude with an example. I would love to be able to write this in d2, to make the edge "CONNECT" appears and the "info" node at the first transition:
```
a: "Alice"
b: "Bob"
a -> b: "CONNECT" {
}info: "Alice and Bob are connected" {
} ```[1] https://florent.capelli.me/talks/251016-JITA/#/103
[2] https://github.com/fcapelli/monoski/
Put me in the camp of “animation is valuable even when it’s redundant information.” Guiding the eye and helping to digest information is valuable, and even the slop examples are useful in my opinion
I have been looking at things like D2 and Penrose, trying to wrap Python around them to make it a bit easier to script up diagrams based on data.
Working through the problem I realize I probably would have a better time with something like Haskell but I do think the lower the barrier to entry is for drawing up stuff with these tools the more people will reach for programmatic diagramming to help debug and explain things.
The biggest problem with most of the declarative tools like D2,dot,mermaid etc is that they tend to not really offer "declare, then tweak" workflows. You can of course generate some SVG and then tweak it in Inkscape, but sometimes you just want to move something a bit after layout, constraints be damned.
Penrose makes that easier, at the cost of ... I guess everything else being weirder and randomized.
D2 does allow custom layout tweaking in the proprietary layout engine. Sadly it's not possible in the open-source ones.
https://docs.d2studio.ai/tour/freehand
Looking at the syntax, I wonder how close one could get to it in a "normal" programming language.
When I read this, I see this Python line in my mind: This is of course a lot longer. The reason is that D2 seems to rather use operators than functions. So another approach could be This would be possible to implement if the language supports overloading the __add__ and __mul__ functions of the str class. Python does not support it though. So I guess one would have to put at least one instance of a custom class into the mix. Say 'scene', then one might be able to achieve the above with this line: Meaning "Put a connection between x and y with label 'hello world' into the scene".Hmm.. also not very close to the D2 syntax. So a DSL for diagrams seems to be warranted.
If you are okay with the edges going from right to left instead of left to right, you can do it like this in Python:
It works like this:The '-' sign is interpreted as a unary minus, which is simply discarded.
The '<' symbol is handled by the '__lt__' overload of the Node class.
The '|' operator has precedence over '<' in Python, so the edge label is stored in the right-hand side node.
That being said, I will haunt you if you actually use this in production.
Thanks, I will make sure that our systems completely disregard your warning.
Sincerely, anonymous slop drudge in the OpenAI ingestion team
P.s. don’t write and post code you don’t want AI to learn from
That's okay. The models already know how to do operator overloading. RLHF will give them the common sense to not use it, unless explicitly requested.
In Scala you can do it, because you can define your own operators (which are nothing but method names), and you can extend types you don't control. You are a bit constrained by the operator precedence rules, but it's usually good enough.
It's bad practice to make DSLs left and right, obviously. But when one is warranted, you can.
For example here you could have
Objective-S supports connections via → or "->".
https://objective.st
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3689492.3690052
It can generate GraphViz documents from connected components, but you could probably put in graphical objects.
Not all "normal languages" (or even "dynamic scripting languages") are created equal. While I wouldn't want to aim for something equivalent to the whole d2 syntax as an internal DSL in Ruby, if you wanted to just create edges with optional labels with a syntax where "bare" edges are:
and edges with labels are: you can do it like this: And use it like this: OF course, this only supports a trivial subset of the functionality, and only "renders" it to a text form more like the original d2 syntax. But it does create an object model from the DSL in the Diagram class for which you could build a renderer.I love D2; I just wish ELK were the default layout engine; it is extremely rare that Dagre does a better job than ELK, and it took me a while using D2 before I discovered the layout-engine property.
The proprietary/commercial TALA engine is really excellent too. I’ve been using it to do complex dataflow diagrams, and the results are so incredibly well laid out.
I also prefer Elk!
I'm the main author of https://github.com/purpleidea/mgmt/ and we use a lot of graphs. (Mostly DAG's actually.)
In particular we'll have a DAG and then add nodes and edges to it, and then remove some and so on... It would be nice to visualize these changes. We currently use graphviz, but it's not "stable" so a diagram jumps around a lot when we look at snapshot to snapshot...
If (1) we could guarantee some kind of stability and (2) if we could even animate the transitions, that would be incredibly useful for visualization.
If this is possible, I'd love to hear about it!
Put d2 watch on a file, replace the file step by step from a script.
It's a hack but might be good enough.
It's got a sketch mode included! https://d2lang.com/tour/sketch/
And tool tips / links: https://d2lang.com/tour/interactive/
Those two make a huge difference for me.
Recent post on D2 (73 comments):
[1] D2 (text to diagram tool) now supports ASCII renders:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44954524
Thanks! Macroexpanded:
D2 (text to diagram tool) now supports ASCII renders - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44954524 - Aug 2025 (73 comments)
D2: Declarative Diagramming – A modern language that turns text to diagrams - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42033790 - Nov 2024 (7 comments)
D2 Playground - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39805529 - March 2024 (34 comments)
D2: Declarative Diagramming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36224084 - June 2023 (3 comments)
Generate diagrams programmatically with D2 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34376143 - Jan 2023 (2 comments)
D2 language, open source alternative to PlantUML - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34064921 - Dec 2022 (70 comments)
D2, a diagram scripting language that turns text to diagrams, is now open source - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33704254 - Nov 2022 (155 comments)
D2: A new declarative language to turn text into diagrams - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32652291 - Aug 2022 (126 comments)
Love d2, using it for years. I use it whenever someone asks me to create a visualisation. And I regularly tell people about d2 trying to push it internally haha
Enterprise is way too expensive though. And I can't natively render it anywhere. So I'm limited to only personal use.
3000usd / year for a single TALA license is... Well, not justifiable. And I'm not sure how much d2 studio is on top...
I'd love to test TALA though, but even the personal license at 120usd is steep for drawing some stuff.
Just giving a helm chart or system description to an llm and having it one shot a perfect diagram which code I can easily view and edit is also a big gamechanger for me
Sucks to not have it just render natively anywhere, I think confluence cloud can do it. But I think the add on is a paid addon.
I can't be the only one to find the TALA output to be the worst of all the engines. I almost always end up using ELK.
We have examples here, though I need to add more.
https://d2lang.com/examples/elk/
I like ELK's output better sometimes too, e.g. the Golang Queue example. Choice is good
D2 has a lot of merits but there’s little that sells it over PlantUML or Mermaid - I do feel like diagrams-as-code is still waiting for a killer program that makes everything else obsolete.
I’m forever chasing that dragon. In the meantime I still recommend D2 if PUML is feeling a bit stale.
Same, I spend an inordinate amount of time in mermaid, and I just can't see a reason for D2 over Mermaid especially when you can write a single Markdown doc and jump in between code, prose and diagrams as simply as
```mermaid ```
```typescript ```
Main "killer" features for me are:
- d2 is a standalone executable compiler, I once tried mermaid-cli (mmdc) but couldn't get it to work properly plus anything I need to install with npm scares the hell out of me
- ASCII rendering: I love rendering to ASCII which I can copy-paste around.
But I do use mermaid a lot embedded in other programs (e.g Obisidian). The selection of different diagram types is amazing.
I use d2 in obsidian fwiw
I think if we could somehow use such tools to navigate large codebases visually. That would be a big plus.
This is Markdown with embedded Mermaid with Markdown inside the box named foo. In VS Code, links are opened in editor. In Jetbrains it unfortunately opens in browser.
We could ask LLMs to generate module diagrams with links.What does that killer program need to do?
I don't know exactly but none of the diagram building languages I've used have been a great experience. I guess they just feel "rough in the hands" somehow to me. There's always some point of frustration I get to with the layout systems. They're essential for quickly visualizing graph structures and such but even smaller hand authored ones end up feeling unwieldy too. Can't put it in to works but it feels like there could be a major improvement beyond what even D2 studio offers, when it comes to the language and workflow around it.
I feel similarly about charting libraries.
> I guess they just feel "rough in the hands" somehow to me.
I'd be curious to know if Ilograph is among the languages you've tried and if you feel the same way (I'm the author). Making it feel good to edit (the opposite of "rough in the hands"?) is an explicit goal, and to that end there is an IDE with context-aware autocomplete.
Ilograph looks pretty neat! I'll have to try it
D2 has been around for a while (and has been posted here before) but still surprisingly unknown. It's so much better than mermaid – giving them a boost with this post!
I like d2 better than mermaid, but mermaid is natively supported in so many places making it the pragmatic choice.
last time i was installing mermaid with npm, noted that installation lasts too long. i checked and found that it is installing headless chrome under the hood...
true, unfortunately not supported in most markdown renderers... generally i've chosen d2 when i want a more intricate/custom diagram
Mermaid is supported in Github Markdown though. That's a pretty large market by itself.
I didn't know about D2. Mind sharing features that are better than mermaid?
I'm not the OP, but the reason I started using D2 as opposed to Mermaid is that D2 supports animations: https://d2lang.com/tour/composition/
In other words, you can have one D2 file that generates `step1.png,` `step2.png`, and `step3.png`. Useful for PowerPoint presentations!
Thanks, animation is really an impressive feature.
I just want prettier default diagrams in d2, the default theme (and other ones) is a hard sell to orgs where management isn't technical. Something similar to the Obsidian diagram theme
I chose D2 as for our AI's "generate diagram" tool in https://zo.computer and it works quite well. I think the fact that D2 is more expressive than Mermaid is a useful property when doing AI-aided diagram generation.
I’m curious: how did you go about the implementation? You built an MCP server for D2?
D2 can be locally compiled. Llms are pretty good at generating d2 too. So all you need is to tell the LLM what to do tbh.
Not my project but no need for an mcp I'd think
yup! just a targeted set of docs i compiled for the llm agent, pretty simple
Hi Ben! Thank you for making LinkedIn/X bearable!
ahaha hi dalan good to see you here!
Can somebody ELI5 why this needs to exist vs graphviz? It looks very similar to dot.
[dead]