Provenance and trust are relevant for a remote KVM.
But I can't find any information on their Web site about who runs the JetKVM company, not even a partial name or handle of anyone, nor even what country they are in. Which seems odd for how much this product needs to be trusted.
Searching elsewhere, other than the company Web site... Crunchbase for JetKVM shows 2 people, who it says are based in Berlin, and who also share a principal company, BuildJet, which Crunchbase says is based in Estonia. The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen. BuildJet apparently is a YC company, but BuildJet's Web site has very similar lack of info identifying anyone or their location, again despite the high level of trust required for this product.
Are corporate customers who are putting these products into positions of serious trust -- into their CI, and remote access to inside their infrastructure -- doing any kind of vetting? When the official Web sites have zero information about who this is, are the customers getting the information some other way, before purchasing and deploying?
If these people are still running the companies, why aren't they or anyone else mentioned on the company Web sites? That would be helpful first step for trust for corporate use. So its absence is odd.
If you do this sort of thing often, I'd love to chat further. I'm basically trying to automate this sort of manual research around companies with a library of deep research APIs.
We launched corporate hierarchy research and working on UBO now. From the corporate hierarchy standpoint, it looks like the Delaware entity fully owns the Estonian entity. Auto generated mermaid diagram from the deep research:
It's fairly easy to know how to poke around these businesses. Look up the people, the business, and the product. It's less fun when it involves linkedin. Every country has a database of business numbers to name and rough documentation. Dns look up can reveal some information. Social media typically finish the rest. These "founders" are often serial founders, with a ton of abandoned projects and a trail on product hunt, and other websites.
In this case, what really gets to me is the basic template website they're using; with image carousel but only one image... and the fact that they appeared to have paid influencers on youtube to shill their product.
I noticed the template too. Someone mentioned recently that's actually a good risk signal - scammers often use the same site structure across domains.
On the research, you're absolutely right. It fits that sweet spot where it's just easy / boring / tedious enough to automate with the current generation of LLMs.
Looks like you have a potentially great business for corporate compliance, if you can answer with plausibly high confidence (or indemnify?).
I only occasionally research companies, and it's from an engineering&product perspective, aside from corporate ownership compliance. (For example, I was asked to vet a little-known company as a prospective partner, for building our cloud infrastructure atop theirs. One of the first rapid low-cost, high-value things I could do, besides looking at their docs and trying their demos, was to skim through the history of business news about them.)
Interesting. That's actually where we started. We were doing automated research on vendors from a TPRM perspective and looking for data points around organizational security / reputation. Examples - if the company had been hacked before / how they responded, do they have a CISO, nth party vendors, are they SOC2 / FedRAMP certified, etc. Basically, predictors of risk / stability.
We realized the underlying business graph was the bottleneck though, so that's been our focus for some time. With that in place, we're now coming full circle on the risk research standpoint.
On your comment about confidence / liability, we're actually having conversations around that now and getting feedback. First step is exposing all the research and evidence directly to build trust, which is what we're doing now for the new corporate hierarchy system.
Good idea! I picked a random California Ikea entity (IKEA US RETAIL LLC) and ran it through the system. Here's the output - current goal is to get to ultimate parent.
## Summary
IKEA US RETAIL LLC is a limited liability company. It is wholly owned by IKEA Holding U.S., Inc., and ultimately controlled by Stichting INGKA Foundation, a Dutch foundation that owns Ingka Group.
i got nanokvm pro desktop a couple of days ago. looks like what was before is no more now. i run tcpdump for a while, the only outbound connections are ntp
Dunno if this is still the case now but Coinbase used to have an IBAN in Estonia (or maybe Latvia, can't recall). The three baltic states became quite the EU tech hub lately.
> The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen
This is not unusual for low-count (<10000) orders and "cut the middleman" when you can't recoup the logistics cost of having a local stock.
Most products come out of Shenzen (or another) anyway, "shipped from" is quite a lousy indicator of anything.
I would appreciate a bit more transparency regarding some provenance bits but hey it's a niche Kickstarter still, not a full-blown scaled-up enterprise.
I think products like JetKVM are targeting hobbyists and small outfits; corporations who aren't on a public cloud are using stuff like idrac, ilo, or dedicated rackmount KVM hardware.
True. Small outfits can be a pretty big category of companies that don't have a fully locked-down enterprise security environment with clout who can insist that everything like that racked and put under their control.
Homelabbers tend to like rackmount. (I've owned multiple servers with such dedicated remote management/access hardware built in.)
JetKVM seems designed to be more a shadow IT at individual desks solution, for use at companies that don't prohibit and actively police that.
>We get occasional inquiries about our name. In case you are wondering, it is a pun on "Can't afford a computer laboratory". (We have plenty of computers, to be sure, but the ideal computer laboratory will always be beyond our reach. :-)
>Inspiration for the name was drawn from Walker A. Tompkins, a family friend and prolific writer (of adventures, history, and westerns). Mr. Tompkins used the name "Canta Forda Rancho" for his home in Santa Barbara, CA.
I have a "server" at home. It's just an old desktop. I use a PiKVM (similar to JetKVM) to manage it remotely when the kernel crashes or I fuck up the boot. It happens rarely, but it's nice I can just fix things remotely.
The PiKVM runs wireguard so it's reasonably secure. I assume JetKVM can do the same.
I'm joking a bit but these are exactly the entities that have fewer capabilities to detect malicious behavior.
Assuming JetKVM is operating in full good faith that doesn't mean they themselves aren't going to be the target. You compromise them and you compromise all their customers. That's true regardless of the company size, but is also the reason for transparency
There’s no way to know for sure, since they are closed-source and closed-hardware implementations. But they are backed by billion-dollar companies that lawyers can squeeze if they cause some sort of legally cognizable injury.
The target market does not alleviate any concerns. Consumer grade hardware is used to build botnets and residential proxy networks. The latter could be used to get into your employer if they happen to have credentials and want to match your home IP to avoid detection.
I don't think this is nearly at the stage of "corporate customers putting into serious trust"
Buildjet (the parent company) looks to be a pretty small company with currently modest revenue[1]. I agree that the absence of people on both webpages is sort of odd. I think it make more sense for their original service (CI workers) than it does for a hardware product.
Estonia is (trying to be) the Delaware of the EU for companies. They make it deliberately convenient for any Europeans to incorporate there, so I wouldn't read much into that.
It does share similarity to a rebranded Sipeed NanoKVM model already sold in China.
Would have to dump the flash with proper tooling, and load up a clean OS on a blank chip to even begin checking for issues. Mostly, these gadgets are purposely built like garbage for a number of reasons.
If I needed a DIY KVM install for a home-theater, I'd just setup a https://pikvm.org/ install. =)
For those prices I could buy an old PC to do out of band management and have over half the money left over. The appeal of JetKVM/NanoKVM is they're price competitive with an extra PC for a tiny fraction of the physical and power footprint.
Being a nerdy kid in the 80’s, I can’t see the acronym MCP without thinking, “You’re in trouble program. Why don’t you make it easy on yourself. Who’s your user?”
Well that one at least has appreciable parallels :)
Letting an LLM loose on a real system without containing it in a sandbox sounds about as predictably disastrous as letting a glorified chess program run all ENCOM operations…
And your mom who grew up in the 1960s might have yet another interpretation in mind ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/305272862225 ). MCP is definitely an overloaded acronym at this point.
The virtualization KVM is the new kid to the block. Back in the day the best way to get multiple machines controlled was to just have multiple machines sharing the same monitor, keyboard and mouse.
100% agree! And I'm pretty sure the Linux community had many more (hardware) KVM users than the general population. Kernel-based virtualization should've been abbreviated KbVM.
I'm mildly confused as to the value over, say RustDesk. The latter allows remote control of external machines and has ip hole punching .. no hardware involved! Any takes here?
RustDesk is an alternative to other remote desktop software, JetKVM is an alternative to a built-in IPMI. It could be used as a remote desktop in a pinch, but that's not really the main point.
E.g. you'd use JetKVM-like devices to re-install your OS via emulated drives, remotely control power (including hard reset, not just WoL and software shutdown), change BIOS settings, or troubleshoot a crashing box - all without relying on any specific software/capabilities/behavior of the given box. Meanwhile you'd use remote desktop software when you just want the desktop to present itself remotely.
RDP is over network, which doesn't work well if your need to access a machine that doesn't have a working network stack because you're troubleshooting a hardware failure, early boot failure, OS provisioning, etc.
KVM can also be nicer than RDP for certain multi-box workstation setups that need high bandwidth and low latency.
It's difficult for me to tell how many of the issues in that thread are serious, because there also seem to be a surprising number of people who come back to say "I solved it by enabling h264 in my browser".
On the other hand there are people who say "I ordered three, two work and one doesn't" which seems like pretty good evidence there can be real issues with the hardware.
I’ve been using the glinet comet kvm for my homelab and have no complaints. Their cloud is optional and I don’t use it. The built in tailscale client does what I need it to. I use it with their ATX power accessory to manage physical power on/off when needed.
Given that these things have bare metal access, keeping them off of the public internet seems wise no matter what though.
Keeping these kind of management devices off the Internet seems prudent. But how do you do that and still get Tailscale to work? Assign the device to a separate vlan that is restricted to only talk to Tailscale? Otherwise, if the device is on your regular network, it will still be connected to the internet.
Untrusted devices can sit on a separate VLAN or get WAN blocked, you can still reach them internally, and from any other device on Tailscale. You just need to expose the subnet via Tailscale subnet routing.
Thanks for this. I've been daydreaming about something like this to replace my Lantronix Spider, but... sounds like I'll stick with the steampunk old-tech for a little while longer :)
I've been really happy with my JetKVM. The tariff situation is unfortunate, my recollection is that it was something like $50 during the kickstarter (could be wrong, didn't check). Looking around a bit, I'm not sure I see anything remotely as hackable at a competitive price, so maybe $90 is still a great deal.
I wish there was a way of ordering from a non-US source so I didn't get hit. I'm not in the US, so it feels silly that I have to pay the American import tariffs on Chinese goods!
I believe the $90 is "mostly" without the tariffs - it appears to be the updated post-Kickstarter price (which was $70). The iKoolCore distributor says:
> US Tariff update: There are currently no additional tariffs, but this may change after November 1st. We’ll ship your order promptly to help minimize the risk of tariffs, though we can’t guarantee none will apply.
I am in the USA and the unit I ordered from iKoolCore is being shipped to me from China. I have no idea how much more I might have to pay in tariffs once it arrives to customs, or how I will even go about paying those tariffs.
Trip report of size one, fwiw: I have a JetKVM device at home and it's been super handy in my small homelab (half dozen or so older dells and lenovos). I haven't experienced any problems with my device. It seems solidly built, the software works well and is receiving updates, and the price was very fair from what I recall. One feature that I thought was particularly a nice touch was that you can store OS images on it and have it show up as storage on the target machine (though some of my older gear doesn't seem to want to boot from it for whatever reason -- which I suspect has more to do with decade+ old workstations that last got a firmware upgrade when Obama was president than anything JetKVM is or isn't doing).
PiKVM seems to be the large competitor here and is completely open source. If you're looking into KVM solutions, probably check it out, but JetKVM is over 50% less, which is a huge argument in favor of it.
What justifies the V4 Plus being worth $350? They're using the CM4 so they’ve made a PCB, but what hardware are they adding over the peripherals available on a Pi 4/5? All I can tell is an additional Ethernet port, a SIM card tray, and an “ATX controller”.
What does the board look like, why can’t I DIY that version, etc. Are they just trying to make it up with the software (that I also can’t tell what it looks like).
It's not really worth that much. You absolutely could DIY it, probably just kludge in a basic $30 HDMI capture card. Also JetKVM is now just as "open-source" as PiKVM is, so there's not even a moral high ground to spending extra. Both are open-source software but not open-source firmware or hardware (no schematics or gerbers or anything like that available).
The JetKVM is very impressive looking at a great price. Until recently it wasn't really available in the US but it looks like it is now/
The V4 Mini is a very nice piece of hardware. I paid $300 for one in April from Amazon. I also got PiKVM running on a Pi Zero 2 W and it worked fine but was a bit squirrely. Having the purpose-built device is nice.
You can also use a Pi Zero 2 W as a serial console: it has a USB On-the-Go port perfect for the purpose. But the KVM approach is more generally useful since you can access a consumer BIOS from it.
They recently opened a global store. Previously, the only way to get one was to "buy" it on kickstarter, presumably from the US as well as the rest of the world.
over 50% less the price, I see the JetKVM at $90 USD, but PiKVMs range from $230+.
I found PiKVM useful as I already had the hardware laying around, so setting one up didn't cost me anything, and its a pretty good experience. If I were to buy new though, not sure I'd find it worth the cost for my use case.
I wish there was a KVM out there that didn't need HDMI, where it sat on PCIe bus and presented a really dumb framebuffer/kb/mouse to the BIOS/OS, but sent it out over the network
I'm thinking similarly, but not via PCIe, but via USB: There are plenty of USB->VGA and USB->HDMI adapters that contain a dumb graphics card. So, embedd one of these and grab the video signal internally.
Thereby, plugging in just a single USB cable would deliver the power needed, keyboard, video and mouse. And bonus for an emulated USB-Stick/DVD drive.
What I don't know if these USB video cards are initialized during early boot and usable during the UEFI/BIOS phase. Is that why they grab the HDMI?
I've had this project idea in my list for a while, I even implemented thr software side (an option rom for the pci card) but the hardware side is quite difficult to get started. My plan was to get an FPGA with a hard pci core to do this, but I don't even know what to buy.
I got a cheap Tang Mega 238k but I never managed to even get the PCI examples working (and couldn't even adjust BAR settings)
Yeah there are sort of some BMC/IPMI options like [0] but all of the ones I've seen still require some kind of special (generally proprietary) internal connector on the motherboard, which might not be "HDMI" exactly, but still violates the spirit of your requirements.
I’ve seen raspberry pi based kvms that do just this - draw power from PCI to operate. Except they still usually require a cable to HDMI/USB ports on the computer. I suspect you’d like to have the whole thing to be on card without cables.
To do this, wouldn’t you effectively need to make a graphics card (VGA would work) where a separate chip could read the screen buffer? And somehow get this card to display preferentially over the on-board video card?
I’m sure the all in one card version exists, but honestly a cabled version seems more robust (w/o vendor support that is).
> To do this, wouldn’t you effectively need to make a graphics card (VGA would work) where a separate chip could read the screen buffer? And somehow get this card to display preferentially over the on-board video card?
If you do basic VGA (and UEFI), that'd be plenty for most. If it had a local output it'd be great for systems without video on the cpu (am4 non-apus, but also others)
USB-C in DisplayPort Alt mode plus USB 2.0 signalling for the keyboard and mouse inputs is starting to be a pretty common option on consumer systems. Capturing that would allow remote control of a PC including the BIOS using a single cable (though a second cable would still be needed for connecting to a desktop motherboard's header for power and reset buttons).
I think there just aren't as many options for DisplayPort capture chips as for HDMI/DVI capture.
It looks like I can find Teradici card for $50-200 (used to new), which is in a similar range as the JetKVM. However, according to the installation manual that I found [0], you still need to plug in the DisplayPort connector on the Teradici host card to the GPU output port(s).
Absolutely love this little thing. Picked a couple up back when it was still a kickstarter and was super surprised at the build quality (shockingly heavy for its size) and how smooth everything went.
It's not a thing I use everyday but sooo much nicer than having to unplug and lug my proxmox server up from the meter closet anytime there's an issue.
I wonder if there's a form-factor that looks like an ATX expansion slot (perhaps dual slot) type system with PoE powering it and all the electronics on a PCI-card form-factor. Then the whole thing can all fit on the case neatly, and we just have to plug in from the case to the case and run two Ethernet instead of one.
Pro tip: Do not use on your internet router if it is ALSO the DHCP server, as the JetKVM is by default DHCP (with no backup fallback to a LL address) so if your server somehow needs serious attention...
Support forums are ten-times better than either Slack or Discord and offer more control, they're also searchable and archivable.
I don't think it's a stretch to say people who prefer Discord to forums are the type who sign in with Google or Facebook on all websites that offer it.
Software solutions like Moonlight/Sunshine have been able to do that with near-zero latency for a long time and they are not even the first. Phones have chips capable of capturing 4K 120fps. Why is it so hard for KVM devices?
Because no one manufactures a cheap silicon chip that converts DP Alt-Mode to UVC at 4K. There exist great <$5 ultra-commoditized options for 1080p HDMI -> UVC but as soon as you move up to capture 4K it gets super expensive for the silicon alone and the engineering complexity goes way up as well.
Generally all these devices are just slapping together a few existing silicon chips. If the chip they need doesn’t exist, no ones really going out of their way to overengineer a different solution for which price to consumer would be prohibitive.
As others have said, a full size HDMI port would be nice. However, I've been very satisfied with my JetKVM. I was about to order the GL.iNet KVM they just launched, but I ended up picking up another JetKVM now that sales are open.
My use-case is that I have it connected to an Raspberry Pi which I use to test the RPi builds of my application. I just ordered a second to connect to a mini-PC which is the minimum spec supported by my application. It has made my testing experience very smooth.
A few things: 1/ the system doesn’t need to be connected to a network, or can be on a private/secured network. 2/ You can make changes to BIOS and other elements of the system that the OS can’t “see”. 3/ If the system is sleeping or shutdown, JetKVM can send a wake-on-LAN signal/magic packet.
I’d say for many use cases, it’s not better than RDP/VNC, but if you’re looking access that is independent of the network and state of the system, JetKVM can’t be beat.
Without lights-out management, eventually physical access to power cycle will be needed.
For systems people care about, they already have BMC (Supermicro), iLO (HP), iDRAC (Dell) controllers.
Anything that can capture HDMI and spit it securely over a wire without some cloud-dependency bullshit, present "virtual USB" or input over the network, and close a RST circuit momentarily would do the job. The problem is, in the name of consumerishism and convenience, none of these home-gamer "solutions" have been independently audited that I know of by any reputable firm. (A competitor, NanoKVM, is known to be shady AF downloading serialized binary crap. It talks to tailscale without user permission, communication, or approval. Never use it for anything.) Don't trust something simply because there's press release or social media hype about it. I have to endure constant Cloudflare CAPTCHAs because it's probable that a large fraction of other customers on my ISP have pwned IoT (cameras, doorbells, whizbang startup weather station, etc.) DDoSing and hacking the rest of the world.
PSA: For the love of the sysadmin gods, please don't use desktops as servers. ECC RAM, HA, duty cycle, lights out management, and vendor support are completely different beasts compared to retail gear.
For non-lights-out, host-based remote desktop that can be self-hosted, RustDesk is able to work locally without relaying to any clouds. And using WG (non-TS) for "VPN"/remote network bridging, that's a pretty compelling option. I haven't yet checked if it can work in an air-gapped environment but I think it might work; but if it doesn't, that would be sad.
Can you elaborate further on the security concerns of NanoKVM?
I also fundamentally disagree on your implication that one should "never" use desktops as servers, it all depends on your needs and what trade-offs make sense for your situation.
I've been doing this for decades for a basic home server (essentially, for Plex, a personal Minecraft server and a couple of other minor things for my home) in combination with a backup strategy. I guess I've been lucky that I've never had data loss, but if it packed up tomorrow taking all data with it, it wouldn't be a big deal for me.
If I had used a full server, it would have been noisier, more expensive and possibly more power hungry. The amount of money I haven't spent at this point is very substantial.
I might be missing something, but what does this do that an app like AnyDesk doesn't? Is there something inherently better about remoting in with dedicated hardware rather than using any of the free and widely available software solutions? I can see where this would make sense for low powered machines that can't easily encode video at high speeds / low latency, but I struggle to see the sense of this in a context where I actually want video output (a powerful workstation) rather than just SSH.
It doesn’t require the OS on the target hardware to be running, and no other software can get in the way. It can also connect via a separate network than the one the computer is on (if any).
I believe the primary use-case for devices like this is debugging "Why isn't this server rebooting?" without driving to the datacenter. Good luck figuring that out with AnyDesk or SSH.
Oh geez. I had some USB OTG prototypes of a device like this in 2019 over a Pi zero but nobody cared so I abandoned it. I even used mine in the field. Worked over LTE.
So disappointing. Ewasted it during Covid. And now... Looks like it's a hot field.
From the specs it's very annoying this uses a mini-HDMI. There's room for a full HDMI port, and it's such a waste. We all have dozens of HDMI cables at home, but zero mini-HDMI.
Looking at the product itself, it looks like it barely squeezes the mini-HDMI externally as is, let alone then PCB/internal available space.
I don't think there is, in fact, room for a full HDMI port. Mini HDMI is a compromise, and everyone knows it. It wouldn't have been included if full size HDMI was feasible.
The formfactor is self-imposed though, they could have made the device a few mm wider to accommodate a full HDMI port, but then it wouldn't be nice and square. Form over function maybe.
That’s what I do, the jetkvm has its “own” mini hdmi that follows it as I have moved it from different machines. Buying one cable wasn’t the end of the world (I was able to snag the jetkvm for $70 during its kickstarter and a $10 cord) and I use it constantly so it’s never collecting dust
Since there's no independent audit of these and no way to prove that these aren't being intercepted, I wouldn't be bragging about voluntarily installing potential infrastructure vulnerabilities.
The cynic in me wonders how remote access software companies are NOT in bed with governments and organized crime. Wouldn’t it just be too lucrative?
Sure, these entities may not care about YOU. But YOU provide a means of free computing power, internet connection — the means for proxying cyber attacks.
The market for this type of device is negligible compared to the market of people who install free VPNs and mobile games that come bundled with a botnet membership.
"The means for proxying cyber attacks" are entirely commercialized, just search for residential proxy providers. They sell by the gigabyte and primarily rely on naive users and compromised devices.
I've been using it since I got it. It's been working great with one small issue that I haven't been able to solve. For some reason when I use plasma on Arch linux (but not ubuntu), the display outputs garbage. I'm guessing it's not detecting the EDID correctly and setting a weird resolution or refresh rate. It's not a major issue since other desktop work well so I haven't spent much time looking into it.
I get that too on a machine running Mint Cinnamon. It also happens from the BIOS screen, so I don't think its a Linux issue. A re-plug fixes it, but that's not great for a remote access device.
The KVM can be plugged into any system not just those with a spare PCI-e and you can move it around easier without having to bring systems down if you don't need the direct power control which is the main use case of the PCI-e board.
Yea, just looked at this based on the recommendation in the other comment, it's exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully the software holds up/stays maintained...
I do think that JetKVM software is more polished, and has more frequent updates. Stuff like streaming images over the network is something that is handy.
Nano KVM commits have stagnated a bit, but the form factor is really nice to have everything tucked away. I wish I could run JetKVM on the Nano KVM.
I'd also point out the gl.inet Comet Pro, which has some nice to haves like wifi 6, full sized HDMI ports, HDMI and USB pass through. https://www.gl-inet.com/campaign/gl-rm10/
The PiKVM approach of having a whole computer you can also use makes so much sense to me. Interesting seeing similar parallels in NAS space, where Ugreen for example is running Debian on their NAS.
Hopefully you are in a network that allows P2P! Then STUN just works and you can use any of the public servers (CloudFlare, Google, Twilio...)
Running your own TURN server would be trivial also. I have been tempted for a long time to make a 'TURN in a Box' that does autoconfig so people can run it easily on Hetzner/AWS
If Sipeed had any idea how to run a product or software, the NanoKVM line would eat this alive.
Fortunately, Sipeed is like most other chinese manufacturers and have no idea what they're doing. Did they partner with Manjaro for that one? I don't think the Manjaro folks are even that incompetent.
It is hard for me to understand who benefits from these devices. Any serious server environment already uses idrac or something similar. What kind of device are people planning to remote into with them? NVRs maybe?
People without a serious server environment or in all the myriad places where you need a local terminal temporarily or setting up one is super inconvenient. Say a small 19" rack in a cellar. with this you just plug in in, memorise the IP and go somewhere where you can sit comfortably.
I think you overestimate how "serious" most companies are. Sure, they have long documents about compliance but then you look behind the facade and see a CI server running on a windows laptop with an external USB SSD plugged in.
I have the PCIe version of NanoKVM, and I am also happy with it.
The big advantage of the PCIe version is that it does not take up space on the desk and all the cables for ATX power control an inside the PC case.
Full-sized HDMI is nice, the only limitation here is 1080p resolution. 1440p or higher would allow mirroring the output on the main monitor to the NanoKVM, but this probably a weird use-case anyway.
Since people are saying this software doesn't have enough time/known contributors for trust who would people recommend for remote control of say a parents laptop for remote IT support. Preferably $0 and open source but others as well
I got tired of waiting for JetKVM availability in the US and pulled the trigger on a GL.iNet Comet PoE. A bit more expensive on Amazon ($110) but supports PoE which the JetKVM does not. Honestly, it has worked great. I know the earlier Comet firmware had some issues, but apparently they fixed it up and it has been solid.
Provenance and trust are relevant for a remote KVM.
But I can't find any information on their Web site about who runs the JetKVM company, not even a partial name or handle of anyone, nor even what country they are in. Which seems odd for how much this product needs to be trusted.
Searching elsewhere, other than the company Web site... Crunchbase for JetKVM shows 2 people, who it says are based in Berlin, and who also share a principal company, BuildJet, which Crunchbase says is based in Estonia. The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen. BuildJet apparently is a YC company, but BuildJet's Web site has very similar lack of info identifying anyone or their location, again despite the high level of trust required for this product.
Are corporate customers who are putting these products into positions of serious trust -- into their CI, and remote access to inside their infrastructure -- doing any kind of vetting? When the official Web sites have zero information about who this is, are the customers getting the information some other way, before purchasing and deploying?
If these people are still running the companies, why aren't they or anyone else mentioned on the company Web sites? That would be helpful first step for trust for corporate use. So its absence is odd.
If you do this sort of thing often, I'd love to chat further. I'm basically trying to automate this sort of manual research around companies with a library of deep research APIs.
Had a show HN last week that seemed to go under the radar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45671087
We launched corporate hierarchy research and working on UBO now. From the corporate hierarchy standpoint, it looks like the Delaware entity fully owns the Estonian entity. Auto generated mermaid diagram from the deep research:
It's fairly easy to know how to poke around these businesses. Look up the people, the business, and the product. It's less fun when it involves linkedin. Every country has a database of business numbers to name and rough documentation. Dns look up can reveal some information. Social media typically finish the rest. These "founders" are often serial founders, with a ton of abandoned projects and a trail on product hunt, and other websites.
In this case, what really gets to me is the basic template website they're using; with image carousel but only one image... and the fact that they appeared to have paid influencers on youtube to shill their product.
It feels rushed, and not in a good way.
I noticed the template too. Someone mentioned recently that's actually a good risk signal - scammers often use the same site structure across domains.
On the research, you're absolutely right. It fits that sweet spot where it's just easy / boring / tedious enough to automate with the current generation of LLMs.
Looks like you have a potentially great business for corporate compliance, if you can answer with plausibly high confidence (or indemnify?).
I only occasionally research companies, and it's from an engineering&product perspective, aside from corporate ownership compliance. (For example, I was asked to vet a little-known company as a prospective partner, for building our cloud infrastructure atop theirs. One of the first rapid low-cost, high-value things I could do, besides looking at their docs and trying their demos, was to skim through the history of business news about them.)
Interesting. That's actually where we started. We were doing automated research on vendors from a TPRM perspective and looking for data points around organizational security / reputation. Examples - if the company had been hacked before / how they responded, do they have a CISO, nth party vendors, are they SOC2 / FedRAMP certified, etc. Basically, predictors of risk / stability.
We realized the underlying business graph was the bottleneck though, so that's been our focus for some time. With that in place, we're now coming full circle on the risk research standpoint.
On your comment about confidence / liability, we're actually having conversations around that now and getting feedback. First step is exposing all the research and evidence directly to build trust, which is what we're doing now for the new corporate hierarchy system.
If you want to feature a governance structure infamously hard to get right and impressive to use as an demo, IKEA/Ingka would be an good example.
Good idea! I picked a random California Ikea entity (IKEA US RETAIL LLC) and ran it through the system. Here's the output - current goal is to get to ultimate parent.
## Summary IKEA US RETAIL LLC is a limited liability company. It is wholly owned by IKEA Holding U.S., Inc., and ultimately controlled by Stichting INGKA Foundation, a Dutch foundation that owns Ingka Group.
## Graph
This is the permalink to the deep research result: https://savvyiq.ai/playground/entity-hierarchy/siq_31ro4EDce...Login gated
This guy on YouTube made several videos reviewing these and also doing some WireShark analysis, also on NanoKVM.
Personally I'd never use these on an interned facing network. But they can still be handy for local only.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yHhdTRVvDFU&pp=0gcJCQYKAYcqIYz...
i got nanokvm pro desktop a couple of days ago. looks like what was before is no more now. i run tcpdump for a while, the only outbound connections are ntp
Is the piKVM mode really piKvm?
https://github.com/jetkvm/kvm/graphs/contributors gives us top contributors @ym and @adamshiervani both being Berlin-based, plus @IDisposable in Saint Louis, MO.
> Estonia
Dunno if this is still the case now but Coinbase used to have an IBAN in Estonia (or maybe Latvia, can't recall). The three baltic states became quite the EU tech hub lately.
> The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen
This is not unusual for low-count (<10000) orders and "cut the middleman" when you can't recoup the logistics cost of having a local stock.
Most products come out of Shenzen (or another) anyway, "shipped from" is quite a lousy indicator of anything.
I would appreciate a bit more transparency regarding some provenance bits but hey it's a niche Kickstarter still, not a full-blown scaled-up enterprise.
I think products like JetKVM are targeting hobbyists and small outfits; corporations who aren't on a public cloud are using stuff like idrac, ilo, or dedicated rackmount KVM hardware.
True. Small outfits can be a pretty big category of companies that don't have a fully locked-down enterprise security environment with clout who can insist that everything like that racked and put under their control.
Homelabbers tend to like rackmount. (I've owned multiple servers with such dedicated remote management/access hardware built in.)
JetKVM seems designed to be more a shadow IT at individual desks solution, for use at companies that don't prohibit and actively police that.
Home lab is a subset of hobbyists. And many of them like mini PCs.
Yes me too. A lot of my stuff is NUCs and similar. Several of those nice ultra-cheap N100s. Amazing stuff
"Homelabbers" reminds me of the inimitable Rich Morin's and Vicki Brown's "Canta Forda Computer Lab". (Say it out loud!)
https://web.archive.org/web/20200312000527/http://www.cfcl.c...
>We get occasional inquiries about our name. In case you are wondering, it is a pun on "Can't afford a computer laboratory". (We have plenty of computers, to be sure, but the ideal computer laboratory will always be beyond our reach. :-)
>Inspiration for the name was drawn from Walker A. Tompkins, a family friend and prolific writer (of adventures, history, and westerns). Mr. Tompkins used the name "Canta Forda Rancho" for his home in Santa Barbara, CA.
I have a "server" at home. It's just an old desktop. I use a PiKVM (similar to JetKVM) to manage it remotely when the kernel crashes or I fuck up the boot. It happens rarely, but it's nice I can just fix things remotely.
The PiKVM runs wireguard so it's reasonably secure. I assume JetKVM can do the same.
Thanks, needed a good laugh.
Putting a BMC or KVM on the Internet is hilariously unwise.
No need worry about dodgy remote desktop software — the attackers will be able to back door the firmware!
(Yes, iLO verifies firmware signatures… but yes they’ve had horrific vulnerabilities, worse than nightmares).
You don't put these devices on the public internet! You use Wireguard to control access. Think Tailscale or similar.
I'm joking a bit but these are exactly the entities that have fewer capabilities to detect malicious behavior.
Assuming JetKVM is operating in full good faith that doesn't mean they themselves aren't going to be the target. You compromise them and you compromise all their customers. That's true regardless of the company size, but is also the reason for transparency
IDrac often demands that the PC connecting to it be on the same network however, an rkvm like this let's you skip the pc-in-the-middle step.
Fine for one or two machines, but if you're dealing with a rack or more, an extra machine for management tools is no big deal.
Implying idrac, ilo and similar are somehow reputable?
There’s no way to know for sure, since they are closed-source and closed-hardware implementations. But they are backed by billion-dollar companies that lawyers can squeeze if they cause some sort of legally cognizable injury.
The target market does not alleviate any concerns. Consumer grade hardware is used to build botnets and residential proxy networks. The latter could be used to get into your employer if they happen to have credentials and want to match your home IP to avoid detection.
This is why I recently went with a PiKVM. Pricier and clunkier but much more open and transparent.
JetKVM is a YC-funded company, and Jeff Geerling has done at least one video on them
I don't think this is nearly at the stage of "corporate customers putting into serious trust"
Buildjet (the parent company) looks to be a pretty small company with currently modest revenue[1]. I agree that the absence of people on both webpages is sort of odd. I think it make more sense for their original service (CI workers) than it does for a hardware product.
https://ariregister.rik.ee/eng/company/16075023/Buildjet-O%C...
Estonia is (trying to be) the Delaware of the EU for companies. They make it deliberately convenient for any Europeans to incorporate there, so I wouldn't read much into that.
It does share similarity to a rebranded Sipeed NanoKVM model already sold in China.
Would have to dump the flash with proper tooling, and load up a clean OS on a blank chip to even begin checking for issues. Mostly, these gadgets are purposely built like garbage for a number of reasons.
If I needed a DIY KVM install for a home-theater, I'd just setup a https://pikvm.org/ install. =)
https://github.com/pikvm/pikvm/
The firmware is open source and you can compile and flash your own. You can even run your own version of their cloud access offering
https://github.com/jetkvm
Also you can SSH into it:
https://jetkvm.com/docs/advanced-usage/developing#developer-...
And the serial console is available over USB UART (SBU)
If it's attempting to be a covert op it's doing either a terrible job or a very advanced one.
> similarity to a rebranded Sipeed NanoKVM
That NanoKVM is RISC-V, the JetKVM is ARM Cortex-A7. Unlikely to be a rebrand.
That said the UI looks somewhat similar so Sipeed might have aped the JetKVM software part (which is FOSS)
For those prices I could buy an old PC to do out of band management and have over half the money left over. The appeal of JetKVM/NanoKVM is they're price competitive with an extra PC for a tiny fraction of the physical and power footprint.
For feature parity, the old PC will require USB OTG, HDMI input, wiring for ATX control, and a software stack.
Sipeed makes a PCIe KVM card for around $80 that drops into standard PC cases.
I'd assume it runs off the 5v standby power when the primary ATX supply is sleeping. =3
https://github.com/sipeed/NanoKVM?tab=readme-ov-file
A pi4 is $35 + parts, and can do a PXE server as well... but it is the OS/kernel upkeep that always hits proprietary devices.
Small recycled PCs can certainly work too, and reminds me of the https://guacamole.apache.org/ project. =3
I know this might sound naive but for those of us who had to google
kvm here mean keyboard video and mouse, not the linux kernel-based virtual machine kvm
this device apparently is used to connect to machines remotely over IP
People familiar with KVM switches have the reverse issue with the Linux kernel thing. ;)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45706866#45713054
Likewise with DRM.
Being a nerdy kid in the 80’s, I can’t see the acronym MCP without thinking, “You’re in trouble program. Why don’t you make it easy on yourself. Who’s your user?”
Well that one at least has appreciable parallels :)
Letting an LLM loose on a real system without containing it in a sandbox sounds about as predictably disastrous as letting a glorified chess program run all ENCOM operations…
They should have called it OCP, the Omni Control Protocol.
Over Current Protection
And your mom who grew up in the 1960s might have yet another interpretation in mind ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/305272862225 ). MCP is definitely an overloaded acronym at this point.
Well, my mom was in her mid-twenties by the time that phrase came into usage, but point still well taken.
Digital Radio Mondiale?
Classic TCP (TLA [Three Letter Acronym] Collision Problem)
The virtualization KVM is the new kid to the block. Back in the day the best way to get multiple machines controlled was to just have multiple machines sharing the same monitor, keyboard and mouse.
100% agree! And I'm pretty sure the Linux community had many more (hardware) KVM users than the general population. Kernel-based virtualization should've been abbreviated KbVM.
I'm mildly confused as to the value over, say RustDesk. The latter allows remote control of external machines and has ip hole punching .. no hardware involved! Any takes here?
RustDesk is an alternative to other remote desktop software, JetKVM is an alternative to a built-in IPMI. It could be used as a remote desktop in a pinch, but that's not really the main point.
E.g. you'd use JetKVM-like devices to re-install your OS via emulated drives, remotely control power (including hard reset, not just WoL and software shutdown), change BIOS settings, or troubleshoot a crashing box - all without relying on any specific software/capabilities/behavior of the given box. Meanwhile you'd use remote desktop software when you just want the desktop to present itself remotely.
The advantage of KVMs like this is that it's a remove keyboard, video device, and mouse. That means that you can use it before the OS has started
I thought that was RDS (remote desktop).
RDP is over network, which doesn't work well if your need to access a machine that doesn't have a working network stack because you're troubleshooting a hardware failure, early boot failure, OS provisioning, etc.
KVM can also be nicer than RDP for certain multi-box workstation setups that need high bandwidth and low latency.
Just a FYI - many people[0] (including myself) have had serious issues with JetKVM.
In my case, I found it is not compatible with all HDMI sources but others just have unknown "Loading video stream..." issues.
[0] https://github.com/jetkvm/kvm/issues/84
It's difficult for me to tell how many of the issues in that thread are serious, because there also seem to be a surprising number of people who come back to say "I solved it by enabling h264 in my browser".
On the other hand there are people who say "I ordered three, two work and one doesn't" which seems like pretty good evidence there can be real issues with the hardware.
I ordered three and they all worked and then one died. Fortunately they replaced it, though.
this doesn’t seem ideal for a piece of hardware that may go in a remote location.
It doesn't. But judging from forum posts, it seems like it was a common failure mode and it might've been fixed in later hardware revs.
Ordered 2, one was fine, other required a reflash to resolve a black screen. Worked fine across a variety of SBCs and desktops since.
Security is not top priority very obviously, but for a quick kvm on a system without bmc, it’s fine. Picks up DHCP quickly and responsive web UI.
I’ve been using the glinet comet kvm for my homelab and have no complaints. Their cloud is optional and I don’t use it. The built in tailscale client does what I need it to. I use it with their ATX power accessory to manage physical power on/off when needed.
Given that these things have bare metal access, keeping them off of the public internet seems wise no matter what though.
Keeping these kind of management devices off the Internet seems prudent. But how do you do that and still get Tailscale to work? Assign the device to a separate vlan that is restricted to only talk to Tailscale? Otherwise, if the device is on your regular network, it will still be connected to the internet.
Use Tailscale subnet routing.
Untrusted devices can sit on a separate VLAN or get WAN blocked, you can still reach them internally, and from any other device on Tailscale. You just need to expose the subnet via Tailscale subnet routing.
Thanks for this. I've been daydreaming about something like this to replace my Lantronix Spider, but... sounds like I'll stick with the steampunk old-tech for a little while longer :)
I'm excited to take mine apart soon and figure out why this might be happening for those people.
> people[0]
I read that as you were selecting the first record from the people array
I've been really happy with my JetKVM. The tariff situation is unfortunate, my recollection is that it was something like $50 during the kickstarter (could be wrong, didn't check). Looking around a bit, I'm not sure I see anything remotely as hackable at a competitive price, so maybe $90 is still a great deal.
It would be awesome if they made a PoE version.
> The tariff situation is unfortunate
I wish there was a way of ordering from a non-US source so I didn't get hit. I'm not in the US, so it feels silly that I have to pay the American import tariffs on Chinese goods!
I believe the $90 is "mostly" without the tariffs - it appears to be the updated post-Kickstarter price (which was $70). The iKoolCore distributor says:
> US Tariff update: There are currently no additional tariffs, but this may change after November 1st. We’ll ship your order promptly to help minimize the risk of tariffs, though we can’t guarantee none will apply.
I am in the USA and the unit I ordered from iKoolCore is being shipped to me from China. I have no idea how much more I might have to pay in tariffs once it arrives to customs, or how I will even go about paying those tariffs.
Trip report of size one, fwiw: I have a JetKVM device at home and it's been super handy in my small homelab (half dozen or so older dells and lenovos). I haven't experienced any problems with my device. It seems solidly built, the software works well and is receiving updates, and the price was very fair from what I recall. One feature that I thought was particularly a nice touch was that you can store OS images on it and have it show up as storage on the target machine (though some of my older gear doesn't seem to want to boot from it for whatever reason -- which I suspect has more to do with decade+ old workstations that last got a firmware upgrade when Obama was president than anything JetKVM is or isn't doing).
Overall, I'd recommend them. :)
Related:
JetKVM – Control any computer remotely - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42986909 - Feb 2025 (1 comment)
JetKVM Source - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42553822 - Dec 2024 (1 comment)
JetKVM – Next generation open-source KVM over IP for $69 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42313894 - Dec 2024 (2 comments)
JetKVM: Tiny IP KVM That's Not an Apple Watch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957056 - Oct 2024 (14 comments)
PiKVM seems to be the large competitor here and is completely open source. If you're looking into KVM solutions, probably check it out, but JetKVM is over 50% less, which is a huge argument in favor of it.
https://pikvm.org
What justifies the V4 Plus being worth $350? They're using the CM4 so they’ve made a PCB, but what hardware are they adding over the peripherals available on a Pi 4/5? All I can tell is an additional Ethernet port, a SIM card tray, and an “ATX controller”.
What does the board look like, why can’t I DIY that version, etc. Are they just trying to make it up with the software (that I also can’t tell what it looks like).
It's not really worth that much. You absolutely could DIY it, probably just kludge in a basic $30 HDMI capture card. Also JetKVM is now just as "open-source" as PiKVM is, so there's not even a moral high ground to spending extra. Both are open-source software but not open-source firmware or hardware (no schematics or gerbers or anything like that available).
Geekworm make cheaper KVM hardware built around the Raspberry Pi. I have a KVM-A8 which mounts in a card slot.
https://geekworm.com/collections/pikvm
The JetKVM software is also open source: https://github.com/jetkvm/kvm
I can buy 3 or 4 x JetKVMs for 1 PiKVM, pretty hard to justify going for PiKVM unless there is a PiKVM feature you need
The JetKVM is very impressive looking at a great price. Until recently it wasn't really available in the US but it looks like it is now/
The V4 Mini is a very nice piece of hardware. I paid $300 for one in April from Amazon. I also got PiKVM running on a Pi Zero 2 W and it worked fine but was a bit squirrely. Having the purpose-built device is nice.
You can also use a Pi Zero 2 W as a serial console: it has a USB On-the-Go port perfect for the purpose. But the KVM approach is more generally useful since you can access a consumer BIOS from it.
They recently opened a global store. Previously, the only way to get one was to "buy" it on kickstarter, presumably from the US as well as the rest of the world.
Tiny pilot is also an option
Was gonna say the same thing, here: https://tinypilotkvm.com/
Is it really $400 per host?
Why would one pick a TinyPilot over NanoKVM or JetKVM?
JetKVM is over 50% less what?
over 50% less the price, I see the JetKVM at $90 USD, but PiKVMs range from $230+.
I found PiKVM useful as I already had the hardware laying around, so setting one up didn't cost me anything, and its a pretty good experience. If I were to buy new though, not sure I'd find it worth the cost for my use case.
Price.
I wish there was a KVM out there that didn't need HDMI, where it sat on PCIe bus and presented a really dumb framebuffer/kb/mouse to the BIOS/OS, but sent it out over the network
I'm thinking similarly, but not via PCIe, but via USB: There are plenty of USB->VGA and USB->HDMI adapters that contain a dumb graphics card. So, embedd one of these and grab the video signal internally.
Thereby, plugging in just a single USB cable would deliver the power needed, keyboard, video and mouse. And bonus for an emulated USB-Stick/DVD drive.
What I don't know if these USB video cards are initialized during early boot and usable during the UEFI/BIOS phase. Is that why they grab the HDMI?
I've had this project idea in my list for a while, I even implemented thr software side (an option rom for the pci card) but the hardware side is quite difficult to get started. My plan was to get an FPGA with a hard pci core to do this, but I don't even know what to buy.
I got a cheap Tang Mega 238k but I never managed to even get the PCI examples working (and couldn't even adjust BAR settings)
Yeah there are sort of some BMC/IPMI options like [0] but all of the ones I've seen still require some kind of special (generally proprietary) internal connector on the motherboard, which might not be "HDMI" exactly, but still violates the spirit of your requirements.
0: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/thin...
Looks like standalone AST2400 PCIe x1 cards exist and are sold on AliExpress, but none of them has the Ethernet port for some reason, strange.
Something like Intel AMT? Some prosumer motherboards like ASRock Rack have out of band management controllers in them.
Yes - but a bolt-on solution for nearly any motherboard with an extra PCIe or NVMe slot.
I’ve seen raspberry pi based kvms that do just this - draw power from PCI to operate. Except they still usually require a cable to HDMI/USB ports on the computer. I suspect you’d like to have the whole thing to be on card without cables.
Example: https://geekworm.com/collections/pikvm (but I think this still requires separate power)
To do this, wouldn’t you effectively need to make a graphics card (VGA would work) where a separate chip could read the screen buffer? And somehow get this card to display preferentially over the on-board video card?
I’m sure the all in one card version exists, but honestly a cabled version seems more robust (w/o vendor support that is).
I have a desktop that I'm using as a server box, I'd like to avoid plugging in a GPU just to change BIOS options or debug a boot failure
> To do this, wouldn’t you effectively need to make a graphics card (VGA would work) where a separate chip could read the screen buffer? And somehow get this card to display preferentially over the on-board video card?
If you do basic VGA (and UEFI), that'd be plenty for most. If it had a local output it'd be great for systems without video on the cpu (am4 non-apus, but also others)
annoyingly, AMT still requires me to have a dummy HDMI dongle plugged in to work
or that just connected over usb and acted as a usb display adapter
afaik usb isn't an option for bios/preboot display. so only useful if the thing is booting up OK enough to run a usb display driver
USB-C in DisplayPort Alt mode plus USB 2.0 signalling for the keyboard and mouse inputs is starting to be a pretty common option on consumer systems. Capturing that would allow remote control of a PC including the BIOS using a single cable (though a second cable would still be needed for connecting to a desktop motherboard's header for power and reset buttons).
I think there just aren't as many options for DisplayPort capture chips as for HDMI/DVI capture.
That seems to be one of their products
https://jetkvm.com/products/atx-extension-board
That’s not what that is
Teradici is that, but too expensive for home users.
It looks like I can find Teradici card for $50-200 (used to new), which is in a similar range as the JetKVM. However, according to the installation manual that I found [0], you still need to plug in the DisplayPort connector on the Teradici host card to the GPU output port(s).
0: https://anyware.hp.com/web-help/pcoip_remote_workstation_car...
Lights out kvm
I have happily used nanokvm (https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/kvm/NanoKVM_Pro/introduc... ).
(N.b. unfortunately the ATX board cannot be ordered independently, so be sure to order the "nanokvm-full" package)
For what its worth, GL inet released something similar https://www.gl-inet.com/campaign/gl-rm10/?utm_source=website...
Absolutely love this little thing. Picked a couple up back when it was still a kickstarter and was super surprised at the build quality (shockingly heavy for its size) and how smooth everything went.
It's not a thing I use everyday but sooo much nicer than having to unplug and lug my proxmox server up from the meter closet anytime there's an issue.
I love this little thing. In case someone uses ESRack system, here's the bracket I designed you can print https://www.printables.com/model/1359418-esrack-module-jetkv...
I wonder if there's a form-factor that looks like an ATX expansion slot (perhaps dual slot) type system with PoE powering it and all the electronics on a PCI-card form-factor. Then the whole thing can all fit on the case neatly, and we just have to plug in from the case to the case and run two Ethernet instead of one.
EDIT: Anything I can think of, China has already built https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/kvm/NanoKVM_PCIe/introdu...
Amazing
Pro tip: Do not use on your internet router if it is ALSO the DHCP server, as the JetKVM is by default DHCP (with no backup fallback to a LL address) so if your server somehow needs serious attention...
Well yes, your JetKVM no longer has a lease.
Don't ask me how I discovered this one :-)
Static addressing in the next release, shame there's no link locals setup though.
>Join our Discord
Nothing instils faith in a product like using a gaming chatroom populated by tweens for communication.
God forbid they try to save a bit of money, got a better suggestion?
Are you aware how expensive community slack can be these days? Between this and some old school community support forum i personally pick discord
Support forums are ten-times better than either Slack or Discord and offer more control, they're also searchable and archivable.
I don't think it's a stretch to say people who prefer Discord to forums are the type who sign in with Google or Facebook on all websites that offer it.
I agree. Discord support = a cheap company that can disappear tomorrow. Similar to cryptos.
It's not 2018 anymore
I don't see what that has anything to do with it.
demo shift
Don't use these on your corporate devices or the infosec department will think you are a DPRK remote worker.
Is this even detectable? Doesn’t it just show up as a regular mouse and keyboard?
How come there are still no 4K 60fps KVM devices?
Software solutions like Moonlight/Sunshine have been able to do that with near-zero latency for a long time and they are not even the first. Phones have chips capable of capturing 4K 120fps. Why is it so hard for KVM devices?
Because no one manufactures a cheap silicon chip that converts DP Alt-Mode to UVC at 4K. There exist great <$5 ultra-commoditized options for 1080p HDMI -> UVC but as soon as you move up to capture 4K it gets super expensive for the silicon alone and the engineering complexity goes way up as well.
Generally all these devices are just slapping together a few existing silicon chips. If the chip they need doesn’t exist, no ones really going out of their way to overengineer a different solution for which price to consumer would be prohibitive.
As others have said, a full size HDMI port would be nice. However, I've been very satisfied with my JetKVM. I was about to order the GL.iNet KVM they just launched, but I ended up picking up another JetKVM now that sales are open.
My use-case is that I have it connected to an Raspberry Pi which I use to test the RPi builds of my application. I just ordered a second to connect to a mini-PC which is the minimum spec supported by my application. It has made my testing experience very smooth.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what advantage does this have over RDP/VNC?
Operates at a hardware level, separate from the target machine rather than software in the OS.
With RDP/VNC what do you do if the machine fails to boot? Or RDP stops working for some reason and you can't SSH in?
Or for installing a headless OS on a new machine.
I'm sure there are more specific usecases as well but that's what I mainly use remote KVM devices for at home.
A few things: 1/ the system doesn’t need to be connected to a network, or can be on a private/secured network. 2/ You can make changes to BIOS and other elements of the system that the OS can’t “see”. 3/ If the system is sleeping or shutdown, JetKVM can send a wake-on-LAN signal/magic packet.
I’d say for many use cases, it’s not better than RDP/VNC, but if you’re looking access that is independent of the network and state of the system, JetKVM can’t be beat.
Ah, this use case makes the most sense to me - thank you kind stranger.
RDP/VNC don’t work when the computer is off. Or the computer’s network card is down.
Add-on, almost lights-out remote management.
Without lights-out management, eventually physical access to power cycle will be needed.
For systems people care about, they already have BMC (Supermicro), iLO (HP), iDRAC (Dell) controllers.
Anything that can capture HDMI and spit it securely over a wire without some cloud-dependency bullshit, present "virtual USB" or input over the network, and close a RST circuit momentarily would do the job. The problem is, in the name of consumerishism and convenience, none of these home-gamer "solutions" have been independently audited that I know of by any reputable firm. (A competitor, NanoKVM, is known to be shady AF downloading serialized binary crap. It talks to tailscale without user permission, communication, or approval. Never use it for anything.) Don't trust something simply because there's press release or social media hype about it. I have to endure constant Cloudflare CAPTCHAs because it's probable that a large fraction of other customers on my ISP have pwned IoT (cameras, doorbells, whizbang startup weather station, etc.) DDoSing and hacking the rest of the world.
PSA: For the love of the sysadmin gods, please don't use desktops as servers. ECC RAM, HA, duty cycle, lights out management, and vendor support are completely different beasts compared to retail gear.
For non-lights-out, host-based remote desktop that can be self-hosted, RustDesk is able to work locally without relaying to any clouds. And using WG (non-TS) for "VPN"/remote network bridging, that's a pretty compelling option. I haven't yet checked if it can work in an air-gapped environment but I think it might work; but if it doesn't, that would be sad.
Can you elaborate further on the security concerns of NanoKVM?
I also fundamentally disagree on your implication that one should "never" use desktops as servers, it all depends on your needs and what trade-offs make sense for your situation.
I've been doing this for decades for a basic home server (essentially, for Plex, a personal Minecraft server and a couple of other minor things for my home) in combination with a backup strategy. I guess I've been lucky that I've never had data loss, but if it packed up tomorrow taking all data with it, it wouldn't be a big deal for me.
If I had used a full server, it would have been noisier, more expensive and possibly more power hungry. The amount of money I haven't spent at this point is very substantial.
https://telefoncek.si/2025/02/2025-02-10-hidden-microphone-o...
I might be missing something, but what does this do that an app like AnyDesk doesn't? Is there something inherently better about remoting in with dedicated hardware rather than using any of the free and widely available software solutions? I can see where this would make sense for low powered machines that can't easily encode video at high speeds / low latency, but I struggle to see the sense of this in a context where I actually want video output (a powerful workstation) rather than just SSH.
It doesn’t require the OS on the target hardware to be running, and no other software can get in the way. It can also connect via a separate network than the one the computer is on (if any).
it’s useful to be able to get into the bios for remote support situations of critical servers, I guess
I believe the primary use-case for devices like this is debugging "Why isn't this server rebooting?" without driving to the datacenter. Good luck figuring that out with AnyDesk or SSH.
> what does this do that an app like AnyDesk doesn't
Work when the network config on that particular computer is down/borked.
or allow you to do a fresh OS install.
Oh geez. I had some USB OTG prototypes of a device like this in 2019 over a Pi zero but nobody cared so I abandoned it. I even used mine in the field. Worked over LTE.
So disappointing. Ewasted it during Covid. And now... Looks like it's a hot field.
I need to do stop doubting myself. Somehow
From the specs it's very annoying this uses a mini-HDMI. There's room for a full HDMI port, and it's such a waste. We all have dozens of HDMI cables at home, but zero mini-HDMI.
Looking at the product itself, it looks like it barely squeezes the mini-HDMI externally as is, let alone then PCB/internal available space.
I don't think there is, in fact, room for a full HDMI port. Mini HDMI is a compromise, and everyone knows it. It wouldn't have been included if full size HDMI was feasible.
The formfactor is self-imposed though, they could have made the device a few mm wider to accommodate a full HDMI port, but then it wouldn't be nice and square. Form over function maybe.
The form factor is based on the Apple Watch screen they use, clearly.
Mini-HDMI is fine for this use though and can just move with the item so it's not like you need to buy many.
That’s what I do, the jetkvm has its “own” mini hdmi that follows it as I have moved it from different machines. Buying one cable wasn’t the end of the world (I was able to snag the jetkvm for $70 during its kickstarter and a $10 cord) and I use it constantly so it’s never collecting dust
My company runs on GL.iNet Comet GL-RM1 KVMs to manage servers deployed at remote customer sites and I'm about to deploy more tomorrow
"GL Technologies (HK) Ltd & GL Intelligence, Inc & Shenzhen GuangLianZhiTong Tech Co.Ltd"
Since there's no independent audit of these and no way to prove that these aren't being intercepted, I wouldn't be bragging about voluntarily installing potential infrastructure vulnerabilities.
The cynic in me wonders how remote access software companies are NOT in bed with governments and organized crime. Wouldn’t it just be too lucrative?
Sure, these entities may not care about YOU. But YOU provide a means of free computing power, internet connection — the means for proxying cyber attacks.
The market for this type of device is negligible compared to the market of people who install free VPNs and mobile games that come bundled with a botnet membership.
"The means for proxying cyber attacks" are entirely commercialized, just search for residential proxy providers. They sell by the gigabyte and primarily rely on naive users and compromised devices.
I've been using it since I got it. It's been working great with one small issue that I haven't been able to solve. For some reason when I use plasma on Arch linux (but not ubuntu), the display outputs garbage. I'm guessing it's not detecting the EDID correctly and setting a weird resolution or refresh rate. It's not a major issue since other desktop work well so I haven't spent much time looking into it.
I get that too on a machine running Mint Cinnamon. It also happens from the BIOS screen, so I don't think its a Linux issue. A re-plug fixes it, but that's not great for a remote access device.
Why not combine the ATX board and the unit itself, and have a real HDMI port? This seems like a mess of cables and dongles.
The KVM can be plugged into any system not just those with a spare PCI-e and you can move it around easier without having to bring systems down if you don't need the direct power control which is the main use case of the PCI-e board.
Something like the NanoKVM-PCIe? I have both JetKVM and NanoKVM-PCIe, its nice to have options.
Yea, just looked at this based on the recommendation in the other comment, it's exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully the software holds up/stays maintained...
I do think that JetKVM software is more polished, and has more frequent updates. Stuff like streaming images over the network is something that is handy.
Nano KVM commits have stagnated a bit, but the form factor is really nice to have everything tucked away. I wish I could run JetKVM on the Nano KVM.
This is cool. JetKVM seems really popular on my homelab groups, but I use something similar called Aurga for my personal stuff.
I don't see anyone in this thread using Aurga. It's not as good as RDP or physically being in front of the machine, but it's good enough.
I have an aurga. I've found their client software to be lacking.
If the device is behind firewall and VPN, short of back door, is it still a security concern?
Has been for close to a week now! Mine is already through Canadian customs after shipping from China. Purchased via Wisdpi.
I think they opened sales the same day that GL.iNet announced their new cloud KVM.
I couldn't see if it could "press" the reset button.
They made an add on board that you wire between your case buttons and the header on your motherboard so you can than then 'press' any of the buttons.
there's this add on which allows it to do front panel/power stuff
https://jetkvm.com/products/atx-extension-board
I've been looking for something like this, but with a built in LTE modem.
Also, where do you buy (IoT?) Sim cards cheaply, valid over entire continents or worldwide?
Looks like they are coming: https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-rm10c4/?utm_source=websi...
get a esim adapter (ie. euicc in sim card format), find a plan on https://esimdb.com/, load it onto the esim, and plug it into your iot device.
They don't seem to offer/list Lyca cards, which are among the cheapest, ime.
I picked up one from the kickstarter campaign. It's a wonderful, well-made device and open-source to boot. I plan to buy more.
Have 2 of these for my homelab with the power management extension and they’ve been great, would recommend
No out of the box TailScale but it's 'easy to add.'
WebRTC is neat. It looks like it relies on CloudFlare WebRTC relay for STUN / TURN, but supposedly you can self-host the cloud api. https://jetkvm.com/docs/networking/remote-access
I'd also point out the gl.inet Comet Pro, which has some nice to haves like wifi 6, full sized HDMI ports, HDMI and USB pass through. https://www.gl-inet.com/campaign/gl-rm10/
The PiKVM approach of having a whole computer you can also use makes so much sense to me. Interesting seeing similar parallels in NAS space, where Ugreen for example is running Debian on their NAS.
Hopefully you are in a network that allows P2P! Then STUN just works and you can use any of the public servers (CloudFlare, Google, Twilio...)
Running your own TURN server would be trivial also. I have been tempted for a long time to make a 'TURN in a Box' that does autoconfig so people can run it easily on Hetzner/AWS
If Sipeed had any idea how to run a product or software, the NanoKVM line would eat this alive.
Fortunately, Sipeed is like most other chinese manufacturers and have no idea what they're doing. Did they partner with Manjaro for that one? I don't think the Manjaro folks are even that incompetent.
It is hard for me to understand who benefits from these devices. Any serious server environment already uses idrac or something similar. What kind of device are people planning to remote into with them? NVRs maybe?
People without a serious server environment or in all the myriad places where you need a local terminal temporarily or setting up one is super inconvenient. Say a small 19" rack in a cellar. with this you just plug in in, memorise the IP and go somewhere where you can sit comfortably.
I think you overestimate how "serious" most companies are. Sure, they have long documents about compliance but then you look behind the facade and see a CI server running on a windows laptop with an external USB SSD plugged in.
I've been satisfied with NanoKVM lite. Cheap and does what i want.
I have the PCIe version of NanoKVM, and I am also happy with it.
The big advantage of the PCIe version is that it does not take up space on the desk and all the cables for ATX power control an inside the PC case.
Full-sized HDMI is nice, the only limitation here is 1080p resolution. 1440p or higher would allow mirroring the output on the main monitor to the NanoKVM, but this probably a weird use-case anyway.
Since people are saying this software doesn't have enough time/known contributors for trust who would people recommend for remote control of say a parents laptop for remote IT support. Preferably $0 and open source but others as well
I got tired of waiting for JetKVM availability in the US and pulled the trigger on a GL.iNet Comet PoE. A bit more expensive on Amazon ($110) but supports PoE which the JetKVM does not. Honestly, it has worked great. I know the earlier Comet firmware had some issues, but apparently they fixed it up and it has been solid.
The cringe thumbnails in the videos in the homepage and having discord for communication is enough for me to NOT use it or try it.