I like the idea, and we need variety in the market to keep things evolving, but I like the bells and whistles. I just don't want it to phone home. Honestly, I want the title to be 'we don't have a network connection and we can still be a car'. Privacy is my #1 feature.
I mean, even back in the OnStar days, you could "opt out" and cancel the service and it would track you anyway. With BYD or any other car maker, I'd be worried the SIM was a placebo.
This is where things like a HackRF or flipper zero are useful - leave a scan running over 24 hours from multiple fixed locations within the vehicle and you can detect if there are any wireless transmissions, and then triangulate on exactly where they come from using several pieces of yarn cut to the length of estimated distance from the source.
Cars should be independent, local only devices. Having cloud dependencies is just reckless and stupid.
Anyone know of reviewers that do this for cars? I just don't see privacy focused reviews on basically anything. We have reviews about how reparable things are and how good/bad the features are but rarely do I see privacy mentioned or in-depth analysis of TOS and the like to give buyers a sense of how good/bad cars and other devices are. Does everyone just assume it is terrible and go on or is there some reason this isn't a top level item for journalists to evaluate?
You'd need to differentiate between sources - you'd want to capture every signal, then sort into buckets by frequency, by regular timing, and so forth - if a device is sending a burst every 5 seconds, then you can grab every 5 second occurrence of a signal at that frequency and make a reasonable assumption that all that data is from the same radio.
You can filter for all the frequencies that show up regularly, then you differentiate by signal strength - group occurrences of the same frequency into similar dB buckets, then correlate the changes based on new fixed positions within the car, and run some calculations on changes in signal strength to obtain a dB to distance calculation. The strength to distance calculation can be estimated by making some assumptions about the type of radio you're looking for - a simple cellular module is going to be different than a WiFi repeater, or a wireless fob, or a bluetooth tracker.
From the fixed points within your car, you can tie one end of a piece of yarn to where the sensor was affixed, and the length of the yarn should correlate to your dB to distance estimate for that position, and with 2-3 or even 4-5 threads you'd be able to group their loose ends together to get a rough physical indication of exactly where the radio transmission is coming from.
The grouping won't be exact, but it'll literally point in the right direction, and if the threads are too long, or pointing to something buried in the chassis or whatnot, then you can reduce the lengths of your yarns by the same percentage of reduction and they'll be "pointing" at wherever the radio source is.
You're going to get a general location, like "under the dashboard" or "in the glovebox" or "somewhere under the spare in the trunk", not a millimeter precise location. You could probably vibecode a way of processing the data in a browser, and use a bunch of splats and AI modeling of your car and so forth to get a very precise and useful pinpoint of a device with a fancy UI, but you can just use a spreadsheet and text files of logged signal records, the process isn't super difficult.
analytics. same thing anyone that collects data gets. how they use it might be different. most use it to monetize the data. some might actually use it to improve things. because some do use for making money, those that do for actual improving will always be deemed suspect
A data connection still has tangible benefits e.g. remotely starting the AC/heating, live status of chargers / route planning, online map updates, eCall etc
If only I could trust that is all it did. I want 'airplane mode' for my vehicle. I turn my phone to 'airplane' mode all the time specifically because I don't want to give them access to where I am and all the other telemetry. I want incredibly strong protections that their network access isn't abused. Tools like logging all connections by application and the ability to block anything. Blocking when these tools can use the network (only when I have actively let them because I am actively using it for example) and opt-out by default with independent third party auditing of everything they release so I can build trust. I want real guarantees with real consequences when they are broken. I want devices to be mine, not theirs. Right now it is like someone has keys to my house and regularly comes in and installs hidden cameras without my permission. It is evil and people should go to jail for it. Unfortunately though, right now I have 100% trust that they will abuse their position which means I see every 'feature' that connects in any way as a major negative and not a positive. It is deeply unfortunate because I want to enjoy the things I pay for instead of treating them like the enemy that they currently are.
Exactly. If the last decade has shown us anything, consumers will always opt for the convenience features and cost far ahead of privacy concerns. I can't think of many successful consumer products with privacy as their key selling point, despite how many times it shows up here. Apple products maybe, but privacy is listed as feature #6 of the 7 features highlighted halfway down the page on https://www.apple.com/iphone/
I would gladly pay extra (in terms of OEM's profit margin) for a de-contented EV that aims to stay reliable, offline, and be easier to field-repair and upgrade as components improve. Our phones are better than any infotainment system. Batteries and motors will get better in time.
https://www.slate.auto 's pickup seems to be heading in this direction, and now Carice enters in a higher-end market segment. If someone does a minivan or other people-hauler configuration similarly, I'd be first in line.
I like the general design very much. And additionally the fact that it is small, lightweight, and not imposing, while apparently being a fast car.
Except for one thing: the brushed metal dashboard. I can imagine how terribly it's going to reflect the sun from behind when the roof is folded. I hope they can offer a tasteful matte dark version.
As of the lack of bells and whistles, the dashboard seems to be prepared for being customized. I suppose it's not a cheap car, so a customization job is not going to ruin the buyer's finances. I can imagine that a custom radio with protected but visible vacuum tubes could appeal to some buyers.
I'm assuming that its stainless. it were were aggressive about it, it would take a patina for anything from grey to black. stainless also develops a really wide variety of colors if you heat treat it in an oven with good temperature control. there a bronze-like color that's nice, and also a blue.
I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl.
The post's title was editorialized: the archived page makes no mention of analog. The neutral title would be "The 100% electric Carice TC2: a real retro head-turner".
I think OP meant there were no screens in the sparse cockpit, just some analog gauges.
And yeah electric cars need a battery management computer, a charge controller, and a motor controller at least.
I have an unusual EV made by a relatively small company of which only a handful got to private customers, so if I want to fix something, I have to reverse-engineer it first. Most of the time, I will find out that the components used in my vehicle were also used in other cars.
Regarding the difference between EVs and ICEVs, only the powertrain components are relevant and between those, some are more exchangeable and some are less so.
As with ICEVs, most manufacturers have "platforms" that are shared between multiple makes/models. Having shared components with other vehicles of the same platform is the rule rather than the exception.
In the cars I have seen, the whole battery often only fits that specific model, sometimes also for other cars within the same platform. The modules that make up the battery are often exchangeable with other cars made by the same company/group. The cells that make up the modules are almost always generic, but very hard to replace. The battery management system is usually specific to the battery.
I don't know about the current state, but for early EVs the motor and inverter (which converts battery DC to AC for the motor) were often made by external suppliers. Especially EV variants of otherwise ICE-based vehicles like the Fiat e500, VW Golf/Jetta, and some french cars all use the same motor and inverter made by Bosch. If an inverter is connected to a different type of motor, it needs to be tuned for it which is not trivial.
Onboard Chargers (OBCs), that convert AC line voltage from AC chargers to battery voltage are often quite generic and developed and manufactured by suppliers. They are almost always interchangeable within the same platform, but I haven't yet seen completely unrelated OEMs use the same OBC. The same applies to fast charging communications equipment, which is often integrated into the OBC.
DC/DC converters (the alternator equivalent) are rarely separate components anymore and often integrated into either the OBC or the inverter.
Voltage-wise, all these components are often surprisingly flexible and can be used with much lower voltages than their maximum rated voltage.
Other components like contactors and connectors are very generic and I haven't yet seen one that only one OEM would use. There are likely exceptions to this. Often, the base components like the OBC or the inverter are almost identical, only using other (also generic) connectors.
While technically all these components could be replaced in the "old school" style, almost all of them require either coding the components to the specific vehicle, or flashing an OEM-specific firmware. While the former is only doable with OEM-specific software (that is far too expensive for both indiviuals and most independent workshops), I haven't yet seen any example of the latter, at least not for swapping components between unrelated platforms.
As of now, there are almost no "official" aftermarket replacements for these major components. I don't know of any major supplier that will directly sell parts in small quantities and OEMs likely won't sell you as an individual replacement parts either. For DIY repairs, finding used parts from wrecked cars and coding them with cracked software or having it done in an authorized workshop (if even possible) often seems to be the only option so far. Also, everyone will discourage you from working on your EV for "electrical safety" reasons (actually, it's more profitable if they do the work). Working on an EV is quite safe, if done right (which is not hard).
Most of these limitations do not only apply to EVs, but to almost all modern cars. Often, the necessary work of reverse-engineering and cracking software has already been done for ICEVs for tuning purposes.
> Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax).
> The Carice TC2 complies with the European regulations and can therefore be driven in all EU countries and countries that adopt those regulations, like Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Monaco and Norway.
It very much looks like it's designed to be your second/third/tenth car. Not as impractical as a daily driver as most sports cars, but you won't use it for a trip to Ikea either
In terms of not-yet-shipping not-online vehicles, we already have the Slate. So this looks to be a good compliment, for a moderately-wealthy two car household.
For something of the value proposition of an Mazda MX5 with Nissan Figaro styling, I mean it's not terribly far off the mark. If you want the average Top Gear readers budget choice, the Renault 5 with 255 miles of WLTP range is about €32-34k as an 'everyman' Supermini without serious compromises in any particular area.
Short of getting some sub-BYD CDM manufacturer to compete directly, there's not much scope out there to cut much further than that for an acceptable 2+2 QOL car in 2025. Mainly I can see the likes of Dacia cutting corners in the interior to crew-cab standard and releasing a low-tide mark EV like their proposed 'Hipster'.
Dacia has stated that the target price for the entry-level Hipster is planned at around €12-15k - undercutting Dacia's most affordable electric model, the Spring, with an entry RRP of around €18,000 euros.
Look at the Bugatti Tourbillon. About as analog-appearing as it gets. Clearly there’s a recognition that this is what luxury looks like — but switches (let alone dials!) cost more than touch screens.
My 34-year old base spec Chevrolet has digital controls for timing advance, fuel trim, and integrated Engine and Transmission Control Units. But my dash has some analog components ( fuel level is variable voltage instead of PWM ). The mechanics would all say that my truck is very simple, and "old school"
The Lay use of 'analog' is far removed from function. As long as there isn't a screen, it isn't seen to be digital. I studied photography in college and loved shooting film. I have a processing machine that is based on a 6502. When people would talk about non-digital things as analog it would bug me (One is chemical, and one is a computer).
The last real analog stuff would be either carb'd bikes / cars or mechanical fuel injection, which is the worst of both worlds.
However, those ECUs are more closely related to embedded programming than digital dial outs and SIM Card loaded cars with a internal network canbus these days. Analog / Digital Inputs and outputs as a closed loop controller.
The first 20yr of automotive computers they weren't really talking to each other and when they were it wasn't really bidirectional and it wasn't typically on a bus unless you wanna call a dedicated wire a bus.
I like the design, but I can't see myself owning it beyond having it as a hobby vehicle to around town. I've grown far too used to a GPS screen, rear camera and an entertainment system (free of ads thanks to my streaming subscription).
I have to agree. A car with a digital dashboard an infotainment system doesn’t need to feel “complicated”. I get they want as little automation as possible, and I’m fine with giving up on lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, forward safety systems, and eve a rear camera (I often just use the mirrors anyway), but not my music and maps.
Lack of DC fast charging makes the range even more limiting. It takes 2.7 hours to add another 150 miles. Modern EVs can add 150 miles of range in 10-15 minutes.
Yeah, the unfortunate reality with EVs is power and weight are tightly correlated, since the power output is limited by the batteries, and more battery capacity generally means more power output.
From the pictures, this is the kind of vehicle that you would gladly pay extra to have delivered to your second vacation home so you can park it next to your 6 other semi-exotic cars and drive it half a mile to the country club on Saturdays.
If that is not your demographic, they might have geo-located your IP and blocked you based on the median income of your area. (Only half joking.)
specifically, “free” VPN isn’t free. They use your computer that has the VPN software installed as an exit nodes for other customers. Those other customers hammer websites for their AI until it gets blocked. Sucks for you, unfortunately.
Talk to your kids about the dangers of VPNs before it's too late.
Hola is the big one, but in practice, if we hypothesis that no one's running a VPN as a charity, free VPN products need to make money someway, and if you're not paying to use it, how else are they gonna make money?
So basically be suspicious of every single "free" or suspiciously cheap VPN. Go with known brands that come recommended by mulitple people, especially from people "in the know".
Though PirateSoftware (a person) has a good bit on why he doesn't advertise for VPNs on his channel.
It looks like a kit car version of a Porsche 356 crossed with a Nissan Figaro.
It actually looks rather more expensive than it is - it's about 44,000EUR putting it at the same sort of money as a Focus ST. Expensive toy, but not horribly so.
Unsure what it's based on, probably (like the Figaro) some fairly inexpensive existing car's subframes.
You're Web browser probably isn't leaking enough identifiable information for the site to judge whether or not you're a bot, so it default to denying you.
Nice, a cross between the 356 and the Copen. Price is ~55000 Euros including taxes. They're Dutch, I wonder who is backing them, this looks like an expensive thing to develop.
1) Cool, i hope they get lots of orders.
2) We're not past the 'zero emissions' rhetoric? I get evals 'at the tailpipe,' yet i think we've come past that line of thinking (e.g. Fairphone's Cameroon country outline inside the phone, behind the battery cover)
3) Will be interesting to compare results to other cars, e.g. Slate, which approach a similar need/desire from a remarkably different angle.
I guess the complaint is that electricity production is not zero emissions in most of the world, so it could be considered misleading.
I don't think it makes sense, ICE vehicle emission ratings have never included the drilling, refining, and transportation of fuel, and the alternative is for every vehicle to just advertise "unknown emissions" because it's impossible for the manufacturer to know anything beyond what the vehicle itself produces.
This is nice! not a big fan of the design and would really prefer a fixed roof but the concept is still a good one and the avoidance of all the digital doodads is great!
I like the fact that it looks like a "classic" car. I was very disappointed when the electric Mustang looked like any other electric car and not like a classic Mustang.
I'm holding out hope for https://www.slate.auto/en I know it's somehow associated with Amazon, is it going to be a cloud-connected privacy nightmare. I haven't heard anything about it, but I also wouldn't be surprised.
I like the idea, and we need variety in the market to keep things evolving, but I like the bells and whistles. I just don't want it to phone home. Honestly, I want the title to be 'we don't have a network connection and we can still be a car'. Privacy is my #1 feature.
I have a BYD Seal and this was as simple as removing the SIM (it's in the armrest compartment and just pops out).
This is how it should be if the user prefers not to be connected.
I mean, even back in the OnStar days, you could "opt out" and cancel the service and it would track you anyway. With BYD or any other car maker, I'd be worried the SIM was a placebo.
This is where things like a HackRF or flipper zero are useful - leave a scan running over 24 hours from multiple fixed locations within the vehicle and you can detect if there are any wireless transmissions, and then triangulate on exactly where they come from using several pieces of yarn cut to the length of estimated distance from the source.
Cars should be independent, local only devices. Having cloud dependencies is just reckless and stupid.
Anyone know of reviewers that do this for cars? I just don't see privacy focused reviews on basically anything. We have reviews about how reparable things are and how good/bad the features are but rarely do I see privacy mentioned or in-depth analysis of TOS and the like to give buyers a sense of how good/bad cars and other devices are. Does everyone just assume it is terrible and go on or is there some reason this isn't a top level item for journalists to evaluate?
Can this be done without picking up the myriad of SIMs that pass near your car? How would you know which of them is your ghost SIM?
You'd need to differentiate between sources - you'd want to capture every signal, then sort into buckets by frequency, by regular timing, and so forth - if a device is sending a burst every 5 seconds, then you can grab every 5 second occurrence of a signal at that frequency and make a reasonable assumption that all that data is from the same radio.
You can filter for all the frequencies that show up regularly, then you differentiate by signal strength - group occurrences of the same frequency into similar dB buckets, then correlate the changes based on new fixed positions within the car, and run some calculations on changes in signal strength to obtain a dB to distance calculation. The strength to distance calculation can be estimated by making some assumptions about the type of radio you're looking for - a simple cellular module is going to be different than a WiFi repeater, or a wireless fob, or a bluetooth tracker.
From the fixed points within your car, you can tie one end of a piece of yarn to where the sensor was affixed, and the length of the yarn should correlate to your dB to distance estimate for that position, and with 2-3 or even 4-5 threads you'd be able to group their loose ends together to get a rough physical indication of exactly where the radio transmission is coming from.
The grouping won't be exact, but it'll literally point in the right direction, and if the threads are too long, or pointing to something buried in the chassis or whatnot, then you can reduce the lengths of your yarns by the same percentage of reduction and they'll be "pointing" at wherever the radio source is.
You're going to get a general location, like "under the dashboard" or "in the glovebox" or "somewhere under the spare in the trunk", not a millimeter precise location. You could probably vibecode a way of processing the data in a browser, and use a bunch of splats and AI modeling of your car and so forth to get a very precise and useful pinpoint of a device with a fancy UI, but you can just use a spreadsheet and text files of logged signal records, the process isn't super difficult.
What would the car maker gain from adding a decoy sim?
analytics. same thing anyone that collects data gets. how they use it might be different. most use it to monetize the data. some might actually use it to improve things. because some do use for making money, those that do for actual improving will always be deemed suspect
A data connection still has tangible benefits e.g. remotely starting the AC/heating, live status of chargers / route planning, online map updates, eCall etc
If only I could trust that is all it did. I want 'airplane mode' for my vehicle. I turn my phone to 'airplane' mode all the time specifically because I don't want to give them access to where I am and all the other telemetry. I want incredibly strong protections that their network access isn't abused. Tools like logging all connections by application and the ability to block anything. Blocking when these tools can use the network (only when I have actively let them because I am actively using it for example) and opt-out by default with independent third party auditing of everything they release so I can build trust. I want real guarantees with real consequences when they are broken. I want devices to be mine, not theirs. Right now it is like someone has keys to my house and regularly comes in and installs hidden cameras without my permission. It is evil and people should go to jail for it. Unfortunately though, right now I have 100% trust that they will abuse their position which means I see every 'feature' that connects in any way as a major negative and not a positive. It is deeply unfortunate because I want to enjoy the things I pay for instead of treating them like the enemy that they currently are.
Exactly. If the last decade has shown us anything, consumers will always opt for the convenience features and cost far ahead of privacy concerns. I can't think of many successful consumer products with privacy as their key selling point, despite how many times it shows up here. Apple products maybe, but privacy is listed as feature #6 of the 7 features highlighted halfway down the page on https://www.apple.com/iphone/
I would gladly pay extra (in terms of OEM's profit margin) for a de-contented EV that aims to stay reliable, offline, and be easier to field-repair and upgrade as components improve. Our phones are better than any infotainment system. Batteries and motors will get better in time.
https://www.slate.auto 's pickup seems to be heading in this direction, and now Carice enters in a higher-end market segment. If someone does a minivan or other people-hauler configuration similarly, I'd be first in line.
I like the general design very much. And additionally the fact that it is small, lightweight, and not imposing, while apparently being a fast car.
Except for one thing: the brushed metal dashboard. I can imagine how terribly it's going to reflect the sun from behind when the roof is folded. I hope they can offer a tasteful matte dark version.
As of the lack of bells and whistles, the dashboard seems to be prepared for being customized. I suppose it's not a cheap car, so a customization job is not going to ruin the buyer's finances. I can imagine that a custom radio with protected but visible vacuum tubes could appeal to some buyers.
That dash stood out to me as well. Would definitely want wood or leather or a darker matte metal.
I'm assuming that its stainless. it were were aggressive about it, it would take a patina for anything from grey to black. stainless also develops a really wide variety of colors if you heat treat it in an oven with good temperature control. there a bronze-like color that's nice, and also a blue.
I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl.
> I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl.
There are car enthusiasts and Cubertruck owners. There is little overlap between these two sets.
Analog in what sense? No digital readouts?
It has a standard EV charge port, so it's definitely got computers in it somewhere to negotiate charging at a minimum.
The post's title was editorialized: the archived page makes no mention of analog. The neutral title would be "The 100% electric Carice TC2: a real retro head-turner".
I think OP meant there were no screens in the sparse cockpit, just some analog gauges.
And yeah electric cars need a battery management computer, a charge controller, and a motor controller at least.
Hell, I was souring through to see how they made it fully analogue.
A stupid title.
Most likely step motors in the instruments. I am sure there is no analog voltage or pneumatic input to the dashboard.
Out of curiosity, are those components standardized/swappable between manufacturers/models, or customized for each individual make/model?
So much of "old school" auto maintenance was having a relatively standardized size/fit for similar components.
Really interesting question!
I have an unusual EV made by a relatively small company of which only a handful got to private customers, so if I want to fix something, I have to reverse-engineer it first. Most of the time, I will find out that the components used in my vehicle were also used in other cars.
Regarding the difference between EVs and ICEVs, only the powertrain components are relevant and between those, some are more exchangeable and some are less so.
As with ICEVs, most manufacturers have "platforms" that are shared between multiple makes/models. Having shared components with other vehicles of the same platform is the rule rather than the exception.
In the cars I have seen, the whole battery often only fits that specific model, sometimes also for other cars within the same platform. The modules that make up the battery are often exchangeable with other cars made by the same company/group. The cells that make up the modules are almost always generic, but very hard to replace. The battery management system is usually specific to the battery.
I don't know about the current state, but for early EVs the motor and inverter (which converts battery DC to AC for the motor) were often made by external suppliers. Especially EV variants of otherwise ICE-based vehicles like the Fiat e500, VW Golf/Jetta, and some french cars all use the same motor and inverter made by Bosch. If an inverter is connected to a different type of motor, it needs to be tuned for it which is not trivial.
Onboard Chargers (OBCs), that convert AC line voltage from AC chargers to battery voltage are often quite generic and developed and manufactured by suppliers. They are almost always interchangeable within the same platform, but I haven't yet seen completely unrelated OEMs use the same OBC. The same applies to fast charging communications equipment, which is often integrated into the OBC.
DC/DC converters (the alternator equivalent) are rarely separate components anymore and often integrated into either the OBC or the inverter.
Voltage-wise, all these components are often surprisingly flexible and can be used with much lower voltages than their maximum rated voltage.
Other components like contactors and connectors are very generic and I haven't yet seen one that only one OEM would use. There are likely exceptions to this. Often, the base components like the OBC or the inverter are almost identical, only using other (also generic) connectors.
While technically all these components could be replaced in the "old school" style, almost all of them require either coding the components to the specific vehicle, or flashing an OEM-specific firmware. While the former is only doable with OEM-specific software (that is far too expensive for both indiviuals and most independent workshops), I haven't yet seen any example of the latter, at least not for swapping components between unrelated platforms.
As of now, there are almost no "official" aftermarket replacements for these major components. I don't know of any major supplier that will directly sell parts in small quantities and OEMs likely won't sell you as an individual replacement parts either. For DIY repairs, finding used parts from wrecked cars and coding them with cracked software or having it done in an authorized workshop (if even possible) often seems to be the only option so far. Also, everyone will discourage you from working on your EV for "electrical safety" reasons (actually, it's more profitable if they do the work). Working on an EV is quite safe, if done right (which is not hard).
Most of these limitations do not only apply to EVs, but to almost all modern cars. Often, the necessary work of reverse-engineering and cracking software has already been done for ICEVs for tuning purposes.
You can negotiate charging with essentially a single resistor. Deciding when to stop / balancing cells etc is the harder problem.
> You can negotiate charging with essentially a single resistor.
For USB sure.... I'm pretty sure this doesn't charge over USB.
I'm surprised, and you'll be surprised, but this is true!! I gotta start actually looking shit up before saying something....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Signaling
Well, OP Amps are technically "analog" too.
Well, they could be using vacuum tubes…
It's a term usually used to describe the gauges/displays on the dash.
Some choice quotes:
> Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax).
> The Carice TC2 complies with the European regulations and can therefore be driven in all EU countries and countries that adopt those regulations, like Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Monaco and Norway.
Saw that. It's a plaything for the wealthy, not anything like the small spartan EV that we really need.
It very much looks like it's designed to be your second/third/tenth car. Not as impractical as a daily driver as most sports cars, but you won't use it for a trip to Ikea either
In terms of not-yet-shipping not-online vehicles, we already have the Slate. So this looks to be a good compliment, for a moderately-wealthy two car household.
For something of the value proposition of an Mazda MX5 with Nissan Figaro styling, I mean it's not terribly far off the mark. If you want the average Top Gear readers budget choice, the Renault 5 with 255 miles of WLTP range is about €32-34k as an 'everyman' Supermini without serious compromises in any particular area.
Short of getting some sub-BYD CDM manufacturer to compete directly, there's not much scope out there to cut much further than that for an acceptable 2+2 QOL car in 2025. Mainly I can see the likes of Dacia cutting corners in the interior to crew-cab standard and releasing a low-tide mark EV like their proposed 'Hipster'.
Dacia has stated that the target price for the entry-level Hipster is planned at around €12-15k - undercutting Dacia's most affordable electric model, the Spring, with an entry RRP of around €18,000 euros.
https://www.carscoops.com/2025/10/dacia-hipster-previews-dir...
Lovin' this! Though I'm not a fan of the design but like the spirit of it.
I can't fathom why we can't have a modern car with analog displays and switches in the cockpit.
I own a 25 years old car which only has a digital radio (removeable!) and that's it, perfectly enough.
Look at the Bugatti Tourbillon. About as analog-appearing as it gets. Clearly there’s a recognition that this is what luxury looks like — but switches (let alone dials!) cost more than touch screens.
The most analog-appearing car interior I've ever seen is the Spyker C8: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spyker_C8_Spyder_-_F...
On a Bugatti? The switch replacement costs more than a car! https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTMgEhBsh/
No fuel injection or electronic ignition? I'm sure there's an ECU somewhere in the vehicle.
This is the sentiment completely.
My 34-year old base spec Chevrolet has digital controls for timing advance, fuel trim, and integrated Engine and Transmission Control Units. But my dash has some analog components ( fuel level is variable voltage instead of PWM ). The mechanics would all say that my truck is very simple, and "old school"
The Lay use of 'analog' is far removed from function. As long as there isn't a screen, it isn't seen to be digital. I studied photography in college and loved shooting film. I have a processing machine that is based on a 6502. When people would talk about non-digital things as analog it would bug me (One is chemical, and one is a computer).
The last real analog stuff would be either carb'd bikes / cars or mechanical fuel injection, which is the worst of both worlds.
However, those ECUs are more closely related to embedded programming than digital dial outs and SIM Card loaded cars with a internal network canbus these days. Analog / Digital Inputs and outputs as a closed loop controller.
ECUs talked to each other over a digital bus long before anyone added a connection to the internet.
The first 20yr of automotive computers they weren't really talking to each other and when they were it wasn't really bidirectional and it wasn't typically on a bus unless you wanna call a dedicated wire a bus.
Not features found in the cockpit, unless you are not going to space today.
It's electric.
I like the design, but I can't see myself owning it beyond having it as a hobby vehicle to around town. I've grown far too used to a GPS screen, rear camera and an entertainment system (free of ads thanks to my streaming subscription).
I have to agree. A car with a digital dashboard an infotainment system doesn’t need to feel “complicated”. I get they want as little automation as possible, and I’m fine with giving up on lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, forward safety systems, and eve a rear camera (I often just use the mirrors anyway), but not my music and maps.
I actually thought the backup cam was required by law now. I wonder how they get around that.
EDIT: Ah, it's not sold for the US market, so that's how.
Some specs about the car:
- 31.5kWh
- 630kg
- 300km (186mi) range
This review explains the concept behind the car in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTzuUrdyIc
Lack of DC fast charging makes the range even more limiting. It takes 2.7 hours to add another 150 miles. Modern EVs can add 150 miles of range in 10-15 minutes.
Take a look at the video the car driving. I don't think people who buy this are worried about range anxiety.
300 km with an extra battery. 200 km and 590 kg with a smaller one. It's about weight of a Lotus Elan, a bit heavier than a Fiat 500.
186 mi for 31.5 kWh would indicate nearly 200 mpge which is quite impressive.
Pros: Proper EV motor scream. Cons: 56HP.
Yeah, the unfortunate reality with EVs is power and weight are tightly correlated, since the power output is limited by the batteries, and more battery capacity generally means more power output.
Ah... that could explain the apparent absence of airbags.
haha, however, just because you can't move very fast doesn't mean something else moving fast won't hit you.
Would be great to read about it but my residential internet has apparently been blocked for "malicious activity".
From the pictures, this is the kind of vehicle that you would gladly pay extra to have delivered to your second vacation home so you can park it next to your 6 other semi-exotic cars and drive it half a mile to the country club on Saturdays.
If that is not your demographic, they might have geo-located your IP and blocked you based on the median income of your area. (Only half joking.)
It's about 44 grand. It's definitely not "country club" money.
Not a hell of a lot more than say a Fiat 500E convertible, and quite a bit cooler.
Residential internets are now proxies for AI scrapers.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45741357
specifically, “free” VPN isn’t free. They use your computer that has the VPN software installed as an exit nodes for other customers. Those other customers hammer websites for their AI until it gets blocked. Sucks for you, unfortunately.
Talk to your kids about the dangers of VPNs before it's too late.
Which VPNs are like that?
All the ones you don't construct for yourself out of an inexpensive VPS.
your preferences don't sound like facts. Are you claiming that paid VPNs "all" do this as well?
How do you think they make money?
...through the subscription fee.
And from selling your data to whoever shows up with enough cash.
What, you think they're leaving that money sitting on the table?
Hola is the big one, but in practice, if we hypothesis that no one's running a VPN as a charity, free VPN products need to make money someway, and if you're not paying to use it, how else are they gonna make money?
So basically be suspicious of every single "free" or suspiciously cheap VPN. Go with known brands that come recommended by mulitple people, especially from people "in the know".
Though PirateSoftware (a person) has a good bit on why he doesn't advertise for VPNs on his channel.
It looks like a kit car version of a Porsche 356 crossed with a Nissan Figaro.
It actually looks rather more expensive than it is - it's about 44,000EUR putting it at the same sort of money as a Focus ST. Expensive toy, but not horribly so.
Unsure what it's based on, probably (like the Figaro) some fairly inexpensive existing car's subframes.
You're Web browser probably isn't leaking enough identifiable information for the site to judge whether or not you're a bot, so it default to denying you.
This is dangerously disruptive content.
Nice, a cross between the 356 and the Copen. Price is ~55000 Euros including taxes. They're Dutch, I wonder who is backing them, this looks like an expensive thing to develop.
1) Cool, i hope they get lots of orders. 2) We're not past the 'zero emissions' rhetoric? I get evals 'at the tailpipe,' yet i think we've come past that line of thinking (e.g. Fairphone's Cameroon country outline inside the phone, behind the battery cover) 3) Will be interesting to compare results to other cars, e.g. Slate, which approach a similar need/desire from a remarkably different angle.
What's the issue with the zero emissions rhetoric?
I guess the complaint is that electricity production is not zero emissions in most of the world, so it could be considered misleading.
I don't think it makes sense, ICE vehicle emission ratings have never included the drilling, refining, and transportation of fuel, and the alternative is for every vehicle to just advertise "unknown emissions" because it's impossible for the manufacturer to know anything beyond what the vehicle itself produces.
Looks a little like a first gen Daihatsu Copen, and I mean that as a complement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Copen#First_generatio...
I'd call it a Porsche 356 Speedster homage. But the Copen mostly likely drew its inspiration from the 356 as well.
The 54HP is right about what a 356 would have made with the larger engines, and the price with VAT is inflation-adjusted, roughly identical as well.
Too cute for the price tag. But seriously bad design choice of having a plug port in the trunk. Looks like you could close it and lock it, but still.
This is nice! not a big fan of the design and would really prefer a fixed roof but the concept is still a good one and the avoidance of all the digital doodads is great!
The perfect car for someone who doesn't need a car.
Hello Carice
Looks like it's Europe-only.
Mirror: https://archive.is/ACbrd
(2023), at least based on that mirror.
> Hello, Clarice...
Only thing that goes on my head, but I like the car. :)
I want one. What will it cost?
From the FAQ at the bottom of the page:
> Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax)
Street legal in Europe but not the US, up to 300km range.
Hah. That 21% tax (which will surely also be the case here) is a killer.
I like the fact that it looks like a "classic" car. I was very disappointed when the electric Mustang looked like any other electric car and not like a classic Mustang.
Oh, yet another luxury EV.
Wake me up when a manufacturer finally commits to making an EV that everyone can afford and isn't a cloud-connected privacy nightmare.
I'm holding out hope for https://www.slate.auto/en I know it's somehow associated with Amazon, is it going to be a cloud-connected privacy nightmare. I haven't heard anything about it, but I also wouldn't be surprised.
It rumored to have VC funding from Besos, but that doesn't give them special access to Amazon nor Amazon special access to Slat.
It can lead to conflicts of interest (see also: https://www.law.com/delbizcourt/2025/10/29/attorney-for-amaz...) but that's a far cry from significant data sharing.
Slate doesn't have infotainment. It's BYOD with a dashboard mount and a USB connection for car integration.
I haven't heard specifically about connectedness otherwise, but I highly doubt there is a hidden SIM card in there somewhere.
The car starts at about €45k, about the same price as a Tesla Model 3!
That's ex VAT.
It's a few grand more than a Focus ST. Hardly "luxury" money.
For a toy? definitely "luxury money"
Don’t know the cost here but I would fathom it’s not “cloud connected”
> What is the price of a Carice TC2?
> Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax).
I guess that makes it a luxury EV ...