The majority of travelers are ID-compliant — around 94 percent, according to the TSA.
It seems crazy to me that 6% of travelers are going to the airport without ID. (I presume that accompanied minors who aren't required to show ID are included in the 94%)
Real ID is a series of annoying steps that you need to go through to get a star on your license. People that haven't "upgraded" to Real ID are the noncompliant ones.
I've had problems getting one. Taken a couple attempts at it when the drivers license renews. Last attempt, it seems those adopted need both the biological as well as the legal birth certificate. I've sorted my passport, so do have a passport card now - but I don't always travel with it. (One of the gotchas with GA flying, some days you end up taking a commercial flight home) Guess that changes. Previously, they would just wave you through and 'randomly' select you for fabric/skin swabs.
As a legal immigrant, you get used to dealing with government bureaucracy, and the demands are usually higher than for citizens. Places where you get the same treatment as citizens then don't feel so bad in comparison.
I had trouble getting one. I thought I was prepared. I brought in my passport, my social security card, my paystubs, and stacks of utility bills to prove my residence.
They told me bills needed to be physically postmarked, not printed, so what I brought didn't count. The problem was I had gone digital/paperless, so I hardly ever received physical bills in the mail.
I eventually had to switch two of them to paper billing, wait a month or two, get the bill, and then use that before switching back, then go back to the DMV. It was really annoying.
Renewing non-REAL ID driver's license is online.
Getting a REAL ID requires a trip to DMV, and this is why I am avoiding it. Essentially for this reason, i am just choosing to renew my regular ID instead of getting a REALID one.
The good thing is I have many ids that can be used in lieu of REAL ID:
- Passport card
- Passport
- Global entry card
So I will probably never get a REAL ID until California does away with non-REAL ID ids.
Getting a real id requires you to bring in paperwork that doesn't exist for me anymore. They want a utility bill? I do everything paperless. I am unable to get a real id because of their ridiculous "proof" requirements.
It's not about identifying people. I have a passport and can show that to them. I have a global entry card. Both qualify as a substitute for a real id. But I cannot use the global entry card as a form of proof of identity. No, please bring a landline telephone bill to us.
The annoying extra steps involve stuff like authenticating your residence address with additionjal documents. Enough hassle that I didn't bother with mine, as it would have taken extra time and I waited til the last minute before renewing. It's also a privacy invasion. And to do it now I'd have to pay a bunch extra to get a replacement license when I otherwise don't need to. I hope someone can get this new TSA fee blocked by a court.
Added: I think Real ID may also require your license to show your residence address (mine only has my mailing address). California's DMV collects residence addresses but treats them as confidential, ever since actress Rebecca Schaefer got murdered by a stalker who got her address from the DMV. There is a separate space on the application form where you can write the address you want them to print on your license.
Not to mention that the list of acceptable documents has changed multiple times, compliant IDs usually cost extra, issuing clerks often didn't accept digital bills or state documents like voter registration, and some states (e.g. Arizona) only started issuing compliant IDs within the last few years.
It's a rollout practically designed for noncompliance.
I did have to get some additional docs and come back to the AAA office, Not really a big deal but you did need one or two additional docs even though I have a passport.
As a US citizen I "just" needed to present my birth certificate and Social Security card to the DMV along with my "normal" license, and a print-out of a paystub from my employer online (that they didn't even look at).
Of course, the second factor is "going to the DMV", which depending on area can either be an all-day hellscape, or if you're rural, five minutes in and out.
Just FYI: nowadays they only use each security question once, so apparently if they run out of questions after many times of doing this, you might not get cleared to fly.
While I don’t feel one way or another about this w.r.t. charging this fee to people without a Real ID who show up with a normal ID, as someone who has just lost their ID entirely, or shown up accidentally to the airport without it -
This totally makes sense.
The amount of effort it takes for a TSA agent (granted, this is mostly entirely fabricated effort, this seems like a more solved problem, but I digress) to verify my identity the few times this had happened is well worth $18.
It’s not a quick phone call to an external agency and you rattle off your social; it’s a whole shebang.
“Did you live at x? Who else lived at that address with you?”
“What was your sisters last address before her current”
“What was the second address you lived at in [city]”
To be entirely honest, the whole thing was super entertaining. I think part of it was just it made me feel like some super spy.
Anyway - good on them for charging a few bucks. Don’t forget your ID or get your ID updated.
(Sidenote: this line of questioning wasn’t this interesting every time. Sometimes it is more like a one and done question, but I am at my most impressed with TSA when it seems like they actually do give a fuck, and the times it’s been an in-depth line of questioning has stuck with me)
Right, and the reason this has been going on for nearly a quarter century in the USA is because it was widely considered an unconstitutional national passport until 9-11, and got bipartisan push-back from a number of states following its passage.
The federal government passed it along with the authoritarian wishlists various agencies had been salivating over for 40+ years and unable to get passed, until under the guise of saving us from the 'terrorists', who now 25 years later, turned out the actual terrorists were probably just domestic authoritarians. The guys living in caves weren't really a threat and could be dealt with, without passing a bunch of stuff to affect every single citizen of the country.
"As an EU national, you have the right to travel freely in the 27 EU member countries as well as in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (non-EU countries but members of the Schengen area) carrying either a valid passport or a national identity card (ID card)."
The French illegally checked everyone passports on Arrival when I Flew to Corsica once, but I don't expect much from them with all their "Plan Vigipirate" Bullshit which is also just about reducing freedom under the guise of "Protection against Terrorism".
Also Germany isn't much better right now with their also illegal border controls.
Right-Wing-Populism destroys many nice things
>It's also required to at least carry ID (presumably because it may be checked)
That's true, but for Schengen Flights you don't have to go through a government passport control like you have to do for international flights.
Airlines ask for ID sometimes because they make some money off it (to avoid people reselling tickets, charging for correcting misspelled names etc...), but they are not required to.
Last time I flew from Spain they only checked at the gate (which I didn't expect).
Also, most of these countries demand that you have an ID with you at all times outside. Yeah I don't do it either, because where I live is full of pickpockets and a new ID card means travelling for hours to the capital and paying 180€. I'm from Holland and they don't support their citizens abroad well. They even closed all the consulates to save money, as if they're a piss poor country :) Even most poor countries have money for consulates. But if you're a business owner they still have a contact in every city. Stupid neoliberals.
Schengen thing should be working like this but more and more I have been asked for ID/passport, usually by the airline before boarding or local police acting as border guards after arrival.
>>In Europe I don't need to show ID for flights inside the Schengen Area
Really?
I fly between Schengen countries multiple times a year. I don't remember one where I wasn't required to show my ID at both check-in and then gates. There are even ID scanners at the gates.
Driving licence doesn't count as ID either. It's either passport or official government ID card.
I flew multiple times with easyJet in the last years, and I never had to show my ID at the security checkpoints. Sometimes the easyJet agent at the gate wanted to see an ID, but this is done on behalf of the company, not the government.
The only time they ask for ID at the Check-In-Counter, is when you have checked luggage.
And generally considered unconstitutional, until suddenly it wasn't, just like GWB nationalizing the TSA itself thereby creating the single largest case of the federal government pilfering through everyday Americans persons and property hunting for things that are legal to own. Which was also wildly considered unconstitutional, until it wasn't.
And go read the 4th amendment, with the understand that no one who signed it thought anything in the constitution authorizes any part of the federal government to ignore the absolutist language the bill of rights is written in. The assumption was that if there arose a need to justify the federal government searching people like this it needed a super majority to pass an amendment to fix it.
Once you've privatised government operations, the tax revenue flows directly to the NATIONAL SECURITY contractor, so extra taxes is all good. You're paying enterprising folks for the privilege of walking around in a free country.
Real ID is a series of annoying steps that you need to go through to get a star on your license. People that haven't "upgraded" to Real ID are the noncompliant ones.
I've had problems getting one. Taken a couple attempts at it when the drivers license renews. Last attempt, it seems those adopted need both the biological as well as the legal birth certificate. I've sorted my passport, so do have a passport card now - but I don't always travel with it. (One of the gotchas with GA flying, some days you end up taking a commercial flight home) Guess that changes. Previously, they would just wave you through and 'randomly' select you for fabric/skin swabs.
I don't remember any annoying steps to get Real ID at the CA DMV in San Francisco. (For reference, I'm not a US citizen, but am here legally.)
What are the annoying steps others have faced?
As a legal immigrant, you get used to dealing with government bureaucracy, and the demands are usually higher than for citizens. Places where you get the same treatment as citizens then don't feel so bad in comparison.
I had trouble getting one. I thought I was prepared. I brought in my passport, my social security card, my paystubs, and stacks of utility bills to prove my residence.
They told me bills needed to be physically postmarked, not printed, so what I brought didn't count. The problem was I had gone digital/paperless, so I hardly ever received physical bills in the mail.
I eventually had to switch two of them to paper billing, wait a month or two, get the bill, and then use that before switching back, then go back to the DMV. It was really annoying.
Renewing non-REAL ID driver's license is online. Getting a REAL ID requires a trip to DMV, and this is why I am avoiding it. Essentially for this reason, i am just choosing to renew my regular ID instead of getting a REALID one.
The good thing is I have many ids that can be used in lieu of REAL ID: - Passport card - Passport - Global entry card
So I will probably never get a REAL ID until California does away with non-REAL ID ids.
>Getting a REAL ID requires a trip to DMV
Getting a real id requires you to bring in paperwork that doesn't exist for me anymore. They want a utility bill? I do everything paperless. I am unable to get a real id because of their ridiculous "proof" requirements.
It's not about identifying people. I have a passport and can show that to them. I have a global entry card. Both qualify as a substitute for a real id. But I cannot use the global entry card as a form of proof of identity. No, please bring a landline telephone bill to us.
It's just another humiliation ritual.
> They want a utility bill? I do everything paperless. I
They accept printed pdfs over even a pdf on your phone.
A landline lol are they living in the 90s?
The annoying extra steps involve stuff like authenticating your residence address with additionjal documents. Enough hassle that I didn't bother with mine, as it would have taken extra time and I waited til the last minute before renewing. It's also a privacy invasion. And to do it now I'd have to pay a bunch extra to get a replacement license when I otherwise don't need to. I hope someone can get this new TSA fee blocked by a court.
Added: I think Real ID may also require your license to show your residence address (mine only has my mailing address). California's DMV collects residence addresses but treats them as confidential, ever since actress Rebecca Schaefer got murdered by a stalker who got her address from the DMV. There is a separate space on the application form where you can write the address you want them to print on your license.
Not to mention that the list of acceptable documents has changed multiple times, compliant IDs usually cost extra, issuing clerks often didn't accept digital bills or state documents like voter registration, and some states (e.g. Arizona) only started issuing compliant IDs within the last few years.
It's a rollout practically designed for noncompliance.
I did have to get some additional docs and come back to the AAA office, Not really a big deal but you did need one or two additional docs even though I have a passport.
Going to the DMV is the annoying step
Likely documentation-related.
As a US citizen I "just" needed to present my birth certificate and Social Security card to the DMV along with my "normal" license, and a print-out of a paystub from my employer online (that they didn't even look at).
Of course, the second factor is "going to the DMV", which depending on area can either be an all-day hellscape, or if you're rural, five minutes in and out.
I have done at least 20 flights with no ID. Long story. But yeah this would be clutch for dumbasses like me.
Just FYI: nowadays they only use each security question once, so apparently if they run out of questions after many times of doing this, you might not get cleared to fly.
That’s surprising, would expect that accurint or whatever they use could come up with basically unlimited questions.
We have time.
https://archive.ph/EvIyA
While I don’t feel one way or another about this w.r.t. charging this fee to people without a Real ID who show up with a normal ID, as someone who has just lost their ID entirely, or shown up accidentally to the airport without it -
This totally makes sense.
The amount of effort it takes for a TSA agent (granted, this is mostly entirely fabricated effort, this seems like a more solved problem, but I digress) to verify my identity the few times this had happened is well worth $18.
It’s not a quick phone call to an external agency and you rattle off your social; it’s a whole shebang.
“Did you live at x? Who else lived at that address with you?” “What was your sisters last address before her current” “What was the second address you lived at in [city]”
To be entirely honest, the whole thing was super entertaining. I think part of it was just it made me feel like some super spy.
Anyway - good on them for charging a few bucks. Don’t forget your ID or get your ID updated.
(Sidenote: this line of questioning wasn’t this interesting every time. Sometimes it is more like a one and done question, but I am at my most impressed with TSA when it seems like they actually do give a fuck, and the times it’s been an in-depth line of questioning has stuck with me)
Why do they need to identify you for a domestic flight anyway?
In Europe I don't need to show ID for flights inside the Schengen Area. You go through security, they check your luggage and it's done.
There is no legitimate reason for the government to identify you on a domestic flight
Right, and the reason this has been going on for nearly a quarter century in the USA is because it was widely considered an unconstitutional national passport until 9-11, and got bipartisan push-back from a number of states following its passage.
The federal government passed it along with the authoritarian wishlists various agencies had been salivating over for 40+ years and unable to get passed, until under the guise of saving us from the 'terrorists', who now 25 years later, turned out the actual terrorists were probably just domestic authoritarians. The guys living in caves weren't really a threat and could be dealt with, without passing a bunch of stuff to affect every single citizen of the country.
Edit: disregard this if you're talking specifically about showing ID at security checkpoints (instead of at boarding).
> In Europe I don't need to show ID for flights inside the Schengen Area.
What countries are you traveling between?
I've flown at least a dozen times between Portugal and Spain or France the past few years and they've checked my ID in both directions each time.
It's also required to at least carry ID (presumably because it may be checked): https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-c...
"As an EU national, you have the right to travel freely in the 27 EU member countries as well as in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (non-EU countries but members of the Schengen area) carrying either a valid passport or a national identity card (ID card)."
Switzerland to Italy, Switzerland to Portugal.
The French illegally checked everyone passports on Arrival when I Flew to Corsica once, but I don't expect much from them with all their "Plan Vigipirate" Bullshit which is also just about reducing freedom under the guise of "Protection against Terrorism".
Also Germany isn't much better right now with their also illegal border controls.
Right-Wing-Populism destroys many nice things
>It's also required to at least carry ID (presumably because it may be checked)
That's true, but for Schengen Flights you don't have to go through a government passport control like you have to do for international flights.
Airlines ask for ID sometimes because they make some money off it (to avoid people reselling tickets, charging for correcting misspelled names etc...), but they are not required to.
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/fliegen-...
Last time I flew from Spain they only checked at the gate (which I didn't expect).
Also, most of these countries demand that you have an ID with you at all times outside. Yeah I don't do it either, because where I live is full of pickpockets and a new ID card means travelling for hours to the capital and paying 180€. I'm from Holland and they don't support their citizens abroad well. They even closed all the consulates to save money, as if they're a piss poor country :) Even most poor countries have money for consulates. But if you're a business owner they still have a contact in every city. Stupid neoliberals.
> Last time I flew from Spain they only checked at the gate (which I didn't expect)
But that was the Airline and not the Government I suppose.
"We need your id to put your name on the passenger manifest"
"The manifest is required by law"
"We can't just put your possibly-fake name on the manifest because then we'd be committing a crime"
Combinations of other rules probably effectively require it, even if nonsensical.
Schengen thing should be working like this but more and more I have been asked for ID/passport, usually by the airline before boarding or local police acting as border guards after arrival.
>>In Europe I don't need to show ID for flights inside the Schengen Area
Really? I fly between Schengen countries multiple times a year. I don't remember one where I wasn't required to show my ID at both check-in and then gates. There are even ID scanners at the gates.
Driving licence doesn't count as ID either. It's either passport or official government ID card.
I flew multiple times with easyJet in the last years, and I never had to show my ID at the security checkpoints. Sometimes the easyJet agent at the gate wanted to see an ID, but this is done on behalf of the company, not the government.
The only time they ask for ID at the Check-In-Counter, is when you have checked luggage.
Here is an article by German Public Television that confirms there is no legal requirement for the Airline to check, except in Spain https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/fliegen-...
Maybe they're talking specifically about the security checkpoints, rather than the other 2 places where ID gets checked.
Maybe we're moving checkpoints instead of goalposts.
>This totally makes sense.
But asking people to show ID to vote is racist, right?
There's nothing about the process of obtaining a "real id" that makes sense.
Using clear I rarely have to show my ID
Why do I have a feeling this is just going to be bolting a bill acceptor onto CLEAR kiosks as the "alternative biometric verification"?
Another tax. Great. From a Republican administration. What the hell?
The REAL ID act was an expensive unfunded mandate passed in 2005, so the republican administration that imposed this tax is actually that of GWB.
God I had forgotten how old this law is. And how consistently it has been delayed for decades. Born of the post 9/11 world and its concerns...
And generally considered unconstitutional, until suddenly it wasn't, just like GWB nationalizing the TSA itself thereby creating the single largest case of the federal government pilfering through everyday Americans persons and property hunting for things that are legal to own. Which was also wildly considered unconstitutional, until it wasn't.
And go read the 4th amendment, with the understand that no one who signed it thought anything in the constitution authorizes any part of the federal government to ignore the absolutist language the bill of rights is written in. The assumption was that if there arose a need to justify the federal government searching people like this it needed a super majority to pass an amendment to fix it.
Once you've privatised government operations, the tax revenue flows directly to the NATIONAL SECURITY contractor, so extra taxes is all good. You're paying enterprising folks for the privilege of walking around in a free country.