> In 1995, Fraidy Reiss was forced into a marriage by her Orthodox Jewish family in Brooklyn, New York. Reiss was just 19 at the time.
The essay includes exactly one anecdote of child marriage ... which isn't child marriage by its own definition. If age 18 isn't old enough for consent, what is? Forced marriage isn't legal anywhere in the US.
It isn't obvious to me that the age of consent should be identical in all contexts, so this doesn't seem alarming on its face. It depends on the particulars. That's where a good anecdote can help, but this one doesn't. I don't need to be convinced that consent is always necessary for a valid marriage.
No doubt! The rest of the article provides other statistics and apparently there's a report they're getting this from. Sibling comments have also already begun to provide more context. The internet is truly an amazing place, but especially HN here. I appreciate the effort that goes into everyone's commentary!
Edit: The comment this is responding to has been edited so context has been lost, but I'm letting this one stand as is.
There's more detail and multiple anecdotes elsewhere, eg:
It’s estimated that, each year, 12 million girls around the world are married before they turn 18. The perception that child marriage is something that happens to other kids in other places – not the United States – is a false one.
Between 2000 and 2021, nearly 315,000 children were legally entered into marriage across the U.S. The vast majority were girls wed to adult men.
Mandy’s mother encouraged her to become affectionate with the man from their church in Arizona who was showing an interest in Mandy.
He was aged 18. Mandy was 12.
His grooming and abuse continued for years, fully sanctioned by Mandy’s mother, who spoke of God’s plan. He proposed to her four years later, and she tried to say no. After exhausting every possible way to escape what her parents were forcing her to do, she ran away, but as a minor, she had no power. Her parents were able to force her back home and into marriage.
Mandy was married a week after her 17th birthday to her 23-year-old longtime rapist and abuser.
She was trapped in a marriage marked by relentless emotional, physical, verbal and financial abuse.
When Mandy finally escaped as an adult, at age 20, she was excommunicated from her church. She lost all her family and friends. She was left to rebuild her life on her own.
Church groups and family pressuring marriages arranged from a very young age are pretty much the norm for "forced marriages", more common than actual trafficing by strangers.
I've known other 17 year olds who were ready to start a family, and for whom waiting a year would mean bringing one less cherished person into the world. Which scenario is more common? Where should we draw the line? This is almost entirely subjective, and it's hard to fault a jurisdiction for inconsistency.
Let's err on the side that doesn't result in children being forced to marry pedophiles. Yes, the line can be subjective, but the vast majority of cases of child marriage are underage women being forced to marry men over the age of majority.
People not being able to marry at 17 doesn't stop them from waiting a year to be married. That isn't going to stop them from being patient, and won't stop them from having a child.
The existance of women who willingly marry early and have not been groomed since the age of twelve in no way negates the existance of women who have been groomed from a young age into marriages they don't want and rush to leave.
From the perspective of someone who's not married but who has been denied marriage most of my life. If I were married when I was younger then I would've avoided sex before marriage and a lot of soul-destroying traps such as pornography, and other terrible vices such as vaping, excessive alcohol. I probably would've made it through university with far better grades without wasting years of my life through depression and filling the void with things that are not good. Take away the good and false substitutes fill the void. If I were married when I was younger then I would've been able to share life with someone where we could just will the good for each other unconditionally and not spend excessively on what the world says you need in order to be "successful" in order to "get a wife, say". There is reasonable protocol when it comes to marriage. You typically consult the parents of the other party in order to get their approval. So, yes, it makes sense that a person should be able to at the very least "propose to their wife when they are young". Then the husband prepares to have a wife, and he has purpose in his work. Getting married young doesn't mean having children young. Marriage is very good when done in good faith. For Christians this is the way to do having a partner, and it's a holy and sacred covenant and done in the fear of God. Christians are meant to be policing themselves to keep a good conscience with God. People should be allowed to get married young before they are exposed to the evil in the world which is being shoved down everyone's throats. If people think that having sex young is OK then people should be allowed to get married young. The people who say sex young is OK but marriage not are sinful, and not everyone wants to be sinful. Some people want to have the freedom in order to live in a holy way. You don't take the good away and leave the bad. You wanna ban marriage according to some arbitrary age for everyone, then don't be a hypocrite and ban sex according to the same arbitrary age for everyone. But don't make marriage out to be a bad thing. It's not inherently a bad thing. It's a very good thing. Just because there are a few bad eggs out there in the batch, you don't ban the whole thing for everyone.
Marriage was instituted by God when people were created. The Bible says that in the last days people will deny marriage.
When I read this article, I see it as using a strawman argument to attack something which God has put in place.
From the perspective of someone who's not married but who has been denied marriage most of my life. If I were married (or betrothed) when I was younger then I think I would most certainly have avoided sex before marriage and a lot of soul-destroying traps such as pornography, and other terrible vices such as vaping, excessive alcohol.
If having a job or having lots of money, or having a house, becomes a prerequisite to getting married then:
- the rich take all the the woman (like in Braveheart, the noblemen having sex with the peasant's wives)
- anyone who gives their money to the needy in obedience to Jesus, i.e. the good Samaritan is unqualified to take a wife, when he's actually the most qualified and will care best for the person out of love
- robots with increasing rights and less regulation will be taking "wives" (that is abomination by the way) before even human beings can and giving them more rights than human beings is plain evil to be honest.
Marriage was instituted by God when people were created. The Bible says that in the last days people will deny marriage.
When I read this article, I see it as using a straw man fallacy in their argument to attack the effectiveness of the institution of marriage which God has put in place which is inherently a good institution.
Marriage is when you begin your own family. Young betrothal seems like a very correct and good practice because a guy can then think about how he is going to take care of this person, and prepare for that, perhaps go out and get a job, or whatever that preparation looks like and that gives so much meaning and purpose to what they're doing. So if he's going through college, sorting himself out, it's done knowing that there's someone to take care of, someone who is very special to them. It's very motivating and they're going to avoid many pitfalls that people often go through during college years. How many problems would be solved if young people were able to have hope, and joy, and faithfulness and security in even one of their relationships while living on this earth, and for that relationship to have started before they were exposed to the evils in the world?
I probably would've made it through university with far better grades without wasting years of my life through depression and filling the void with things that are not good. Take away the good and false substitutes fill the void. If I were married when I was younger then I would've been able to share life with someone where we could just will the good for each other unconditionally and not spend excessively on what the world says you need in order to be "successful" in order to "attract a wife" or be "eligible" to take a wife, say.
If you were to pick one food to eat for the rest of your life what would it be? If you were to choose one person to marry and be in covenant with for the rest of your life who would it be? Obviously, someone that you would want to be around for that long. Now if some woke person came along and said, '"that's outside of the range of the typical age gap", you must be a rapist' or something like that, that's just a blind assumption. That's how marriage gets attacked these days.
There is reasonable protocol when it comes to marriage, and it's going to automatically deal with lots of issues such as whether someone is too young to marry. You typically consult the parents of the other party in order to get their approval. So, yes, it makes sense that a person should be able to at the very least "propose to their potential future wife when they are young".
A young couple should be allowed to marry, or at the very least be betrothed to get married, before 18 even, in my opinion. But the husband has to get permission from the parents of the woman, or a guardian, say. That helps solve problems like if they're too young, etc.
Then the husband prepares to have a wife, and he has purpose in his work and joy in doing it, duty to love his wife etc. (where being forced to be single robs that and makes life difficult). When a man thinks they have to "date", sleep around, go to "bars", get a bitcoin, get house, whatever it is that society tries to shove on you as some kind of prerequisite to getting a wife, then that's not correct thinking. A person should simply be allowed to propose to the right person when they come along.
Getting married young doesn't mean having children young. Marriage is very good when done in good faith. For Christians this is the way to do having a partner, and it's a holy and sacred covenant and done in the fear of God (not wanting to do evil). Christians are meant to be policing themselves to keep a good conscience with God.
I think the reason why larger than average age gaps are so stigmatised in today's society is because people see sex and relationships as disposable.
But don't make marriage out to be the bad thing. It's not inherently a bad thing. It's inherently a very good thing.
I would say that "actual child marriage is wrong", though, but I don't think this article is accurate in defining what that is. In defining what child marriage is, it's got to take into account what the parents think and if the parents are acting righteously themselves. Are they saving for their children's future? Are they helping or causing harm to their children by preventing them from marrying. I do believe that the state should protect people and the sacred rights of people, rather than trying to over regulate it. I think that current minimum age seems totally reasonable already.
I've been told by a police officer in a church that 10 years age gap is wrong in front of a whole bunch of eligible young adults, even though my parents themselves have 11 years age gap.
So what happens as a consequence of the sabotage of marriage? False substitutes and temptations often take the place, and the person falls into a pit of sin, and self destruction.
What makes a person eligible to take a wife? Being a man is practically all that makes a person eligible.
A single person who has no assets is eligible to have the right to propose. Marriage, like water and air doesn't depend on the US dollar in order to exist. A person can get married for free. The best things in life are free. And that's what marriage should be like. A bird should not be forced to get a pilot's license in order to fly. A man should not have to get some kind of license in order to breath or in order to propose marriage to a woman. It should be joyous and helpful, and when the right person comes along it should be lawful to propose to them.
If we're keeping God's commandments for us, loving one another in the way we're supposed to, then nothing should be stopping us from proposing. It's these man-made rules which become destructive to one another and to society when they nullify God's rules which are meant for our own good. When people say "you're too old, you must be a predator", can they see your thoughts and your heart? It could literally be satan trying to keep you in slavery to sin, to addictions, substances, pornography, sex outside of marriage, etc.
I think that marriage should be further protected rather than further chipped-away-at.
Rights should be given to people to be able to propose marriage without fear of punishment.
Because noone wants to live in fear.
We want to live in love.
Perhaps the government should focus more on a bit of wealth redistribution, instead of continuing to reverse-engineer and replace people, micromanage, control and monetise every single little thing.
Just because there are a times when it hasn't worked out, or few bad eggs in the batch of people who get married young, you don't ban the whole thing for everyone.
> When challenged by Rep. Peter Merideth in April 2023 on arguments related to transgender youth, Moon defended his 2018 stance on child marriage in which he opposed legislation that raised the marriage age from 15 to 16, and requires parental consent for older teenagers to marry.
> After his comments went viral, Moon claimed he did not have enough time to explain his vote and that he does not support adults marrying children. Moon's argument in defense of child marriage in both 2018 and 2023 are an anecdote about a couple he met in college who married at age 12 as a result of pregnancy and are "still married."
> In April 2024 and again in March 2025, Moon cast the sole senate vote against legislation intended to completely ban child marriage in Missouri.
Oh, well if a single instance of someone getting married as a child didn't end in divorce, then it must be a great practice. Because we all know that no abusive relationship has ever persisted because divorce was taboo. By all means, let's keep letting little kids get married before their minds are fully developed and let's keep letting creepy adults have a severe power imbalance over them.
Oddly enough, its also an issue in California, which is one of four states with no minimum age for marriage (despite an 18 year minimum age for divorce.)
And, even more bizarrely, when there was a recent push to abolish it, it was resisted by, among others, the ACLU and Planned Parenthood branches on California (despite the same organizations national and relevant state organizations not opposing moves to ban child marriage in other states.)
>with no minimum age for marriage (despite an 18 year minimum age for divorce.)
Man, that's gotta lead to some occasional legal spaghetti code crap getting dragged through probate court, bankruptcy court, and all the other subjects that is marriage relevant.
IIRC, most child (under 18, at least; 18-21 is a problem with the trusted to drink standard) marriage laws in the US agree that the child can’t be trusted on this, so they trust the child’s parents.
(This is very much not an endorsement of those laws or that approach.)
It's just as gross and wrong that we allow parents to marry off their children to an adult as it is that we allow the marriage to take place at all. It's effectively the same as selling children into sexual slavery.
oof, talk about not reading the room. In the current day, political attention on this topic would likely result in making such marriages easier to coerce, lowering the age of consent, adding exceptions to statutory rape for religious leaders or when the president says it's okay just don't tell your parents, etc. Vice signalling is in.
> In 1995, Fraidy Reiss was forced into a marriage by her Orthodox Jewish family in Brooklyn, New York. Reiss was just 19 at the time.
The essay includes exactly one anecdote of child marriage ... which isn't child marriage by its own definition. If age 18 isn't old enough for consent, what is? Forced marriage isn't legal anywhere in the US.
That's an account of the background of the founder of the organization the piece is about.
Instead of anecdote, they provide statistics about child marriage, one line earlier:
“At least 60,000 marriages since 2000 have occurred at an age or spousal age difference that should have constituted statutory rape under the law.”
It isn't obvious to me that the age of consent should be identical in all contexts, so this doesn't seem alarming on its face. It depends on the particulars. That's where a good anecdote can help, but this one doesn't. I don't need to be convinced that consent is always necessary for a valid marriage.
No doubt! The rest of the article provides other statistics and apparently there's a report they're getting this from. Sibling comments have also already begun to provide more context. The internet is truly an amazing place, but especially HN here. I appreciate the effort that goes into everyone's commentary!
Edit: The comment this is responding to has been edited so context has been lost, but I'm letting this one stand as is.
There's more detail and multiple anecdotes elsewhere, eg:
~ https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage... Church groups and family pressuring marriages arranged from a very young age are pretty much the norm for "forced marriages", more common than actual trafficing by strangers.I've known other 17 year olds who were ready to start a family, and for whom waiting a year would mean bringing one less cherished person into the world. Which scenario is more common? Where should we draw the line? This is almost entirely subjective, and it's hard to fault a jurisdiction for inconsistency.
Let's err on the side that doesn't result in children being forced to marry pedophiles. Yes, the line can be subjective, but the vast majority of cases of child marriage are underage women being forced to marry men over the age of majority.
People not being able to marry at 17 doesn't stop them from waiting a year to be married. That isn't going to stop them from being patient, and won't stop them from having a child.
> but the vast majority of cases of child marriage are underage women being forced to marry men over the age of majority.
Do you have a citation for this?
Referenced elsewhere in this post: https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage...
The existance of women who willingly marry early and have not been groomed since the age of twelve in no way negates the existance of women who have been groomed from a young age into marriages they don't want and rush to leave.
From the perspective of someone who's not married but who has been denied marriage most of my life. If I were married when I was younger then I would've avoided sex before marriage and a lot of soul-destroying traps such as pornography, and other terrible vices such as vaping, excessive alcohol. I probably would've made it through university with far better grades without wasting years of my life through depression and filling the void with things that are not good. Take away the good and false substitutes fill the void. If I were married when I was younger then I would've been able to share life with someone where we could just will the good for each other unconditionally and not spend excessively on what the world says you need in order to be "successful" in order to "get a wife, say". There is reasonable protocol when it comes to marriage. You typically consult the parents of the other party in order to get their approval. So, yes, it makes sense that a person should be able to at the very least "propose to their wife when they are young". Then the husband prepares to have a wife, and he has purpose in his work. Getting married young doesn't mean having children young. Marriage is very good when done in good faith. For Christians this is the way to do having a partner, and it's a holy and sacred covenant and done in the fear of God. Christians are meant to be policing themselves to keep a good conscience with God. People should be allowed to get married young before they are exposed to the evil in the world which is being shoved down everyone's throats. If people think that having sex young is OK then people should be allowed to get married young. The people who say sex young is OK but marriage not are sinful, and not everyone wants to be sinful. Some people want to have the freedom in order to live in a holy way. You don't take the good away and leave the bad. You wanna ban marriage according to some arbitrary age for everyone, then don't be a hypocrite and ban sex according to the same arbitrary age for everyone. But don't make marriage out to be a bad thing. It's not inherently a bad thing. It's a very good thing. Just because there are a few bad eggs out there in the batch, you don't ban the whole thing for everyone.
Marriage was instituted by God when people were created. The Bible says that in the last days people will deny marriage.
When I read this article, I see it as using a strawman argument to attack something which God has put in place.
I elaborated on my thoughts about this.
From the perspective of someone who's not married but who has been denied marriage most of my life. If I were married (or betrothed) when I was younger then I think I would most certainly have avoided sex before marriage and a lot of soul-destroying traps such as pornography, and other terrible vices such as vaping, excessive alcohol.
If having a job or having lots of money, or having a house, becomes a prerequisite to getting married then: - the rich take all the the woman (like in Braveheart, the noblemen having sex with the peasant's wives) - anyone who gives their money to the needy in obedience to Jesus, i.e. the good Samaritan is unqualified to take a wife, when he's actually the most qualified and will care best for the person out of love - robots with increasing rights and less regulation will be taking "wives" (that is abomination by the way) before even human beings can and giving them more rights than human beings is plain evil to be honest.
Marriage was instituted by God when people were created. The Bible says that in the last days people will deny marriage.
When I read this article, I see it as using a straw man fallacy in their argument to attack the effectiveness of the institution of marriage which God has put in place which is inherently a good institution.
Marriage is when you begin your own family. Young betrothal seems like a very correct and good practice because a guy can then think about how he is going to take care of this person, and prepare for that, perhaps go out and get a job, or whatever that preparation looks like and that gives so much meaning and purpose to what they're doing. So if he's going through college, sorting himself out, it's done knowing that there's someone to take care of, someone who is very special to them. It's very motivating and they're going to avoid many pitfalls that people often go through during college years. How many problems would be solved if young people were able to have hope, and joy, and faithfulness and security in even one of their relationships while living on this earth, and for that relationship to have started before they were exposed to the evils in the world?
I probably would've made it through university with far better grades without wasting years of my life through depression and filling the void with things that are not good. Take away the good and false substitutes fill the void. If I were married when I was younger then I would've been able to share life with someone where we could just will the good for each other unconditionally and not spend excessively on what the world says you need in order to be "successful" in order to "attract a wife" or be "eligible" to take a wife, say.
If you were to pick one food to eat for the rest of your life what would it be? If you were to choose one person to marry and be in covenant with for the rest of your life who would it be? Obviously, someone that you would want to be around for that long. Now if some woke person came along and said, '"that's outside of the range of the typical age gap", you must be a rapist' or something like that, that's just a blind assumption. That's how marriage gets attacked these days.
There is reasonable protocol when it comes to marriage, and it's going to automatically deal with lots of issues such as whether someone is too young to marry. You typically consult the parents of the other party in order to get their approval. So, yes, it makes sense that a person should be able to at the very least "propose to their potential future wife when they are young".
A young couple should be allowed to marry, or at the very least be betrothed to get married, before 18 even, in my opinion. But the husband has to get permission from the parents of the woman, or a guardian, say. That helps solve problems like if they're too young, etc.
Then the husband prepares to have a wife, and he has purpose in his work and joy in doing it, duty to love his wife etc. (where being forced to be single robs that and makes life difficult). When a man thinks they have to "date", sleep around, go to "bars", get a bitcoin, get house, whatever it is that society tries to shove on you as some kind of prerequisite to getting a wife, then that's not correct thinking. A person should simply be allowed to propose to the right person when they come along.
Getting married young doesn't mean having children young. Marriage is very good when done in good faith. For Christians this is the way to do having a partner, and it's a holy and sacred covenant and done in the fear of God (not wanting to do evil). Christians are meant to be policing themselves to keep a good conscience with God.
I think the reason why larger than average age gaps are so stigmatised in today's society is because people see sex and relationships as disposable.
But don't make marriage out to be the bad thing. It's not inherently a bad thing. It's inherently a very good thing.
I would say that "actual child marriage is wrong", though, but I don't think this article is accurate in defining what that is. In defining what child marriage is, it's got to take into account what the parents think and if the parents are acting righteously themselves. Are they saving for their children's future? Are they helping or causing harm to their children by preventing them from marrying. I do believe that the state should protect people and the sacred rights of people, rather than trying to over regulate it. I think that current minimum age seems totally reasonable already.
I've been told by a police officer in a church that 10 years age gap is wrong in front of a whole bunch of eligible young adults, even though my parents themselves have 11 years age gap.
So what happens as a consequence of the sabotage of marriage? False substitutes and temptations often take the place, and the person falls into a pit of sin, and self destruction.
What makes a person eligible to take a wife? Being a man is practically all that makes a person eligible. A single person who has no assets is eligible to have the right to propose. Marriage, like water and air doesn't depend on the US dollar in order to exist. A person can get married for free. The best things in life are free. And that's what marriage should be like. A bird should not be forced to get a pilot's license in order to fly. A man should not have to get some kind of license in order to breath or in order to propose marriage to a woman. It should be joyous and helpful, and when the right person comes along it should be lawful to propose to them.
If we're keeping God's commandments for us, loving one another in the way we're supposed to, then nothing should be stopping us from proposing. It's these man-made rules which become destructive to one another and to society when they nullify God's rules which are meant for our own good. When people say "you're too old, you must be a predator", can they see your thoughts and your heart? It could literally be satan trying to keep you in slavery to sin, to addictions, substances, pornography, sex outside of marriage, etc.
I think that marriage should be further protected rather than further chipped-away-at. Rights should be given to people to be able to propose marriage without fear of punishment. Because noone wants to live in fear. We want to live in love.
Perhaps the government should focus more on a bit of wealth redistribution, instead of continuing to reverse-engineer and replace people, micromanage, control and monetise every single little thing.
Just because there are a times when it hasn't worked out, or few bad eggs in the batch of people who get married young, you don't ban the whole thing for everyone.
> When challenged by Rep. Peter Merideth in April 2023 on arguments related to transgender youth, Moon defended his 2018 stance on child marriage in which he opposed legislation that raised the marriage age from 15 to 16, and requires parental consent for older teenagers to marry.
> After his comments went viral, Moon claimed he did not have enough time to explain his vote and that he does not support adults marrying children. Moon's argument in defense of child marriage in both 2018 and 2023 are an anecdote about a couple he met in college who married at age 12 as a result of pregnancy and are "still married."
> In April 2024 and again in March 2025, Moon cast the sole senate vote against legislation intended to completely ban child marriage in Missouri.
Oh, well if a single instance of someone getting married as a child didn't end in divorce, then it must be a great practice. Because we all know that no abusive relationship has ever persisted because divorce was taboo. By all means, let's keep letting little kids get married before their minds are fully developed and let's keep letting creepy adults have a severe power imbalance over them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Moon_(politician)#Child_m...
Report:
https://equalitynow.org/resource/reports/legal-gaps-and-endu...
Related:
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-in-the-u-s/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_S...
The attacks on that religious group do not end...
big issue in appalachia / red states were republican lawmakers have tried to thwart laws restricting the practice
Oddly enough, its also an issue in California, which is one of four states with no minimum age for marriage (despite an 18 year minimum age for divorce.)
And, even more bizarrely, when there was a recent push to abolish it, it was resisted by, among others, the ACLU and Planned Parenthood branches on California (despite the same organizations national and relevant state organizations not opposing moves to ban child marriage in other states.)
>with no minimum age for marriage (despite an 18 year minimum age for divorce.)
Man, that's gotta lead to some occasional legal spaghetti code crap getting dragged through probate court, bankruptcy court, and all the other subjects that is marriage relevant.
If you’re not trusted to drink you shouldn’t be trusted to get married.
IIRC, most child (under 18, at least; 18-21 is a problem with the trusted to drink standard) marriage laws in the US agree that the child can’t be trusted on this, so they trust the child’s parents.
(This is very much not an endorsement of those laws or that approach.)
It's just as gross and wrong that we allow parents to marry off their children to an adult as it is that we allow the marriage to take place at all. It's effectively the same as selling children into sexual slavery.
Or vote.
Wait we haven’t yet ended child marriage in the US? What year is this?
oof, talk about not reading the room. In the current day, political attention on this topic would likely result in making such marriages easier to coerce, lowering the age of consent, adding exceptions to statutory rape for religious leaders or when the president says it's okay just don't tell your parents, etc. Vice signalling is in.