I can only speak for what I have seen in the US..but it seems to me that a large portion of the SUVs out there are really just minivans with different doors in the back and a slight suspension lift. Especially ones like the VW Atlas and comparable. Not to mention the living room sized vehicles like the Toyota Sequoia and GMC Yukon.
Most of the larger ones have 3 rows and essentially the same design internally. If you squint hard enough and imagine sliding doors on the sides there is very little difference.
People seem to buy way larger than they really need also...but that has kinda always been a thing in the US.
There were some weird but large benefits to manufacturers for SUVs over minivans (didn't count against fuel economy standards, based on less expensive platforms). Those are mostly gone but the scale and preferences that they generated have at least partly led to the SUV takeover.
I think one of the underdiscussed things is how in the last couple of decades industries like car manufacturing have become steadily more state controlled.
Today, to be a successful car company you need to be producing cars whose safety features are incredibly tightly regulated by government bodies to the point of doing actively user hostile things (try and get a new car in the UK that won't actively beep at you for going faster than it thinks you should drive).
You need to be producing them at government mandated price levels (cars listed for more than £40k pay an additional £2.5 tax, except electric vehicles for whom the tax only kicks in at £50).
You need to be using a propulsion method approved by government, not only the Euro 6 emissions standards, but also the labyrinthine Benefit in Kind regulations that accidentally gave every small business owner massive incentives to buy a Porsche Taycan.
Oh and on top of that the UK government runs a charity that purchases 20% of all the new cars sold in the UK each year (with that number climbing to 50% in Northern Ireland).
What makes it worse is that governments are doing this somewhat unintentionally.
The US CAFE standards that effectively push large turbocharged vehicles were never intended to do so, the UK salary sacrifice rules were never intended to push PHEV range rovers, and the European emissions rules were never intended to be so harsh on Toyota hybrids.
> All new motor vehicles, including cars, vans, trucks, and buses now need to integrate intelligent speed assistance solutions, cameras, or sensors for reversing detection, attention warnings in case of driver drowsiness, as well as emergency stop signals. In addition, cars and vans should now be equipped with lane keeping and automated braking systems and event data recorders. To prevent bus or truck collisions with pedestrians or cyclists, these vehicles now require technologies for better recognising possible blind spots and integrate warning systems, as well as have specific tyre pressure monitoring systems.
There's a proposal (IDK the current status actually, coming into law in a few years?) in the Netherlands to tax cars based on the area they occupy, not on weight like they are currently taxed. Govt wants to incentivize going electric, but those are heavier than similar sized gas-powered cars.
But there also has been a surge of huge American pickup trucks, which are simply too large for the roads and parking places here. Taxing by area would help with that too.
Indeed: promote electric cars: it's fine if they will be massive, if consumers love them, why force them to do otherwise? Tax ICE powered SUVs and trucks heavily but spare electric ones and give people one more incentive to switch.
Larger vehicles tend to have reduced visibility which can cause accidents, tend to more seriously injure pedestrians in accidents, and tend to wear down roads faster. If a government is taxing/restricting ICE vehicles to account for their negative externalities, then the same should be done for all larger vehicles, including large EVs.
Renting a car has become an absolute nightmare recently. They overbook and chances are good that when you go to pick up the car they won't have one, or at least not the model you reserved. This is especially so at times of high travel demand like holidays.
Living in a big city none of my practical problems with cars have that much to do with combustion really. I'm sure I would appreciate a lower particulate level or whatever but it's not the case that "at least it was electric" is consolation when another of my neighbors' children is killed in traffic.
I can only speak for what I have seen in the US..but it seems to me that a large portion of the SUVs out there are really just minivans with different doors in the back and a slight suspension lift. Especially ones like the VW Atlas and comparable. Not to mention the living room sized vehicles like the Toyota Sequoia and GMC Yukon. Most of the larger ones have 3 rows and essentially the same design internally. If you squint hard enough and imagine sliding doors on the sides there is very little difference.
People seem to buy way larger than they really need also...but that has kinda always been a thing in the US.
There were some weird but large benefits to manufacturers for SUVs over minivans (didn't count against fuel economy standards, based on less expensive platforms). Those are mostly gone but the scale and preferences that they generated have at least partly led to the SUV takeover.
An interesting fact is that the first gen US Honda Odyssey minivan completely lacks slide out doors commonly associated with the vehicle type.
I think one of the underdiscussed things is how in the last couple of decades industries like car manufacturing have become steadily more state controlled.
Today, to be a successful car company you need to be producing cars whose safety features are incredibly tightly regulated by government bodies to the point of doing actively user hostile things (try and get a new car in the UK that won't actively beep at you for going faster than it thinks you should drive).
You need to be producing them at government mandated price levels (cars listed for more than £40k pay an additional £2.5 tax, except electric vehicles for whom the tax only kicks in at £50).
You need to be using a propulsion method approved by government, not only the Euro 6 emissions standards, but also the labyrinthine Benefit in Kind regulations that accidentally gave every small business owner massive incentives to buy a Porsche Taycan.
Oh and on top of that the UK government runs a charity that purchases 20% of all the new cars sold in the UK each year (with that number climbing to 50% in Northern Ireland).
What makes it worse is that governments are doing this somewhat unintentionally.
The US CAFE standards that effectively push large turbocharged vehicles were never intended to do so, the UK salary sacrifice rules were never intended to push PHEV range rovers, and the European emissions rules were never intended to be so harsh on Toyota hybrids.
CAFE also had the unintended consequence of helping SUVs because as "trucks" they didn't count against manufacturers.
> (try and get a new car in the UK that won't actively beep at you for going faster than it thinks you should drive)
This is a thing now? Is this at least a UK-specific "feature"?
It's an EU regulation:
> All new motor vehicles, including cars, vans, trucks, and buses now need to integrate intelligent speed assistance solutions, cameras, or sensors for reversing detection, attention warnings in case of driver drowsiness, as well as emergency stop signals. In addition, cars and vans should now be equipped with lane keeping and automated braking systems and event data recorders. To prevent bus or truck collisions with pedestrians or cyclists, these vehicles now require technologies for better recognising possible blind spots and integrate warning systems, as well as have specific tyre pressure monitoring systems.
https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/news/mandatory-dr...
What is that scheme called? (The gov buying new cars one I mean).
What a great thing, right?
There's a proposal (IDK the current status actually, coming into law in a few years?) in the Netherlands to tax cars based on the area they occupy, not on weight like they are currently taxed. Govt wants to incentivize going electric, but those are heavier than similar sized gas-powered cars.
But there also has been a surge of huge American pickup trucks, which are simply too large for the roads and parking places here. Taxing by area would help with that too.
I hate to say it, but I moved from a small car to an SUV recently and I love it. Just about everything about it is better for me subjectively.
I understand the perspective of city dwellers and mass transit advocates, I grew up in a city with mass transit (and loved that experience as well).
I just wanted to put that out there.
Many people really do like bigger cars better and I don’t know you turn back once you have been spoiled.
But is an SUV actually better than a comparable Sedan? I don't think so.
My issue with all the SUVs I've tried is that they lean too much, and that makes me sick.
Of course, you can pay BMW lots of $ to get things like active rollbar stabilization.
Indeed: promote electric cars: it's fine if they will be massive, if consumers love them, why force them to do otherwise? Tax ICE powered SUVs and trucks heavily but spare electric ones and give people one more incentive to switch.
Larger vehicles tend to have reduced visibility which can cause accidents, tend to more seriously injure pedestrians in accidents, and tend to wear down roads faster. If a government is taxing/restricting ICE vehicles to account for their negative externalities, then the same should be done for all larger vehicles, including large EVs.
The smaller the EV, the more efficient it becomes because it takes less battery, which means it's hauling less etc.
What we need is to normalise small about-town cars for groceries, commuting, and dropping off kids. Something like an e-Citroen.
For long-haul you still want ICE with hybrid.
Crossing my fingers that Aptera ships.
Sounds like nice car marketing: sell everyone two cars instead of one.
Efficiency doesn't matter much with EVs: only ~28% of power is produced with fossil fuels in EU and that's expected to further halve by 2030.
There's enough fast chargers here in EU to travel any distance with an EV.
> sell everyone two cars instead of one
Not necessarily. You could rent a car for long-distance travel.
Renting a car has become an absolute nightmare recently. They overbook and chances are good that when you go to pick up the car they won't have one, or at least not the model you reserved. This is especially so at times of high travel demand like holidays.
Living in a big city none of my practical problems with cars have that much to do with combustion really. I'm sure I would appreciate a lower particulate level or whatever but it's not the case that "at least it was electric" is consolation when another of my neighbors' children is killed in traffic.
The particulates from tires are pretty bad and EVs' weight makes their generation of particulates much worse.
> Cars are steadily becoming longer,
frontal crash protection
> wider
side crash protection
> and heavier in the UK and across Europe
electric batteries.