> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Just get the one that everyone else does: NIOSH TC-84A-0510 with protection against "Solid Particles, Organic Vapors, Acid Gases, Ammonia, Formaldehyde, Methylamine". Every lab buys this filter, or its manufacturer equivalent, for dealing with god-knows-what, because this one will handle just about anything.
TC-84A-0510 is not a product. It is a certification for half-face masks + filter combos. The relevant certification for fullface masks+filters is TC-84A-070. (TC-84A-0701 or TC-84A-0704 more specifically)
I would definitely do a full-face mask. You can buy them at Lowes for painting. The half masks do nothing to protect your eyes. Also try to get Pxx filters as they withstand oils. Some chemicals are oil-soluble and normal Nxx cartridges can’t handle more than one exposure.
Agreed. I signed up for a paid subscription last month after I was linked to this article[1] which correctly, clearly, and accurately labeled the administration's claims about that incident as lies. This is journalism, and it is worth money. The half-assed "videos give the appearance of possibly contradicting..." decide-for-yourself garbage printed by places like the NYT isn't worth the cost of sending the bits over the wire.
While NYT etc mostly stand back as the U.S. crosses the rubicon, what started as a freaking gadget review site seems to employ nearly all the journalists with actual gusto left in America.
I mean if you'd only care about the affiliate revenue, there probably are better niches to serve than citizens looking to protect themselves from tear gas.
They have many other articles directly addressing the rising fascism. That you also only see this as an "affiliate link" without grokking the larger theme of "Gas Masks for tear gas" and how that relates to what ICE is doing to the US is part of the larger problem with contemporary media illiteracy.
Are you sure it is just media illiteracy? Unfortunately, there are people out there that just don't care enough or actually think the US "president" is right and the protestors are dead wrong.
According to Wikipedia's article on The Verge [1] "up to nine of Engadget's writers, editors, and product developers, including editor-in-chief Joshua Topolsky, left AOL, the company behind that website, to start a new gadget site."
3M 6800 have all but sold out on Amazon, probably because of this review. I had almost forgotten about Portland in 2020. This author has some great writing about the double standard of non-violence as well. 10/10
I would generally use McMaster-Carr whenever possible. They will almost never go out of stock even during national crises. I don't generally trust Amazon for items that I can't validate myself due to counterfeiting, e.g. there's a lot of fake knockoff HEPA filters marketed as OEM.
Zoro still has them in stock. If you haven't heard of them, they are a subsidiary of Grainger, a huge industrial supply company. They seem to ship even faster than Amazon in my experience.
Very recently Amazon announced they'd stop commingling inventory from 3P sellers and themselves, so it should be safer to buy from Amazon in the future (if you look at the specific seller), but still maybe worth avoiding for safety critical items which are difficult to inspect.
As long as they don't make a mistake and send the wrong thing anyway, which happens. You're always better off getting safety critical items from a place that only stocks from a verified supply chain, rather than a place that keep them separate merely by policy.
They still need to prove that isn't just a saying. A good reputation takes a long time to develop and very little time to lose. With safety gear I would not take a chance.
If I'm going to take a chance I'd prefer to support a small company. Amazon is big, but I find most things they sell I can find a small company that sells the same for a similar price and they know their product and so will direct me to what works well.
Put aside politics and anti-tear gas use cases: everyone should just have a full face gas mask for all hacker-ish activities, like painting. Skip half-face, go for full face. Half face models don't just leave eyes exposed but hurts the back of the neck. Maybe I'm wearing it wrong, but the headstrap for full face is much more comfortable. They also seal a lot better.
More random tidbits: You'd semi-obviously want a sacrificial wrap over the mask if you're painting, as well as few spare cartridges. There are particulate filters that are just regular paper masks, organic vapor cans for painting, and couple of acid cans for toxic gases. DYOR and use the right one for the task. Particulate filters go on top of gas cans on the iconic 3M 6000 series masks; it's not integrated to the can. The cans also technically only last few hours after opening the package, so technically you should be replacing twice daily. They also can't protect against large amounts of toxic substances like videogame thick green vapors of alien weapons, only what's somewhat casually filtered. In e.g. inside an active volcano, go for full scuba or something that don't rely on filtering. The reason why some masks use pair of cans as opposed to one can, is just for easier breathing. The performance on paper is the same; you can seal off one port with something if you want. The improvement is maybe not negligible, but you get used to breathing through masks quickly anyway. The mini mask that covers mouth and nose inside a full face mask exists to help clear condensation by forcing you to breathe in fresh air around its front surface and force exhalation through the exhaust valve. Removing it will steam up the shield. The air drawn in is filtered, but exhaust is not; if the wearer is infected with something, the mask won't help stop the spread.
> everyone should just have a full face gas mask for all hacker-ish activities, like painting
Not everyone who wears eyeglasses, unless you're prepared to add another several hundred dollars for the lens holder and set of prescription lenses.
I do have the 3M 6800 full face respirator but almost never use it. The silicone 7xxx series is much more comfortable than the rubber 6xxx series, and the 750x silicone half mask is reasonably priced. Augment with comfortable googles as necessary (vented ones work for me since I'm painting, not rioting).
As the author says, most incidents of this kind, in most of the world, are protesters vs. police, and the police have .. a substantial amount of control over whether the situation escalates or not. Including just opening up with tear gas.
Conflicting football ultras is basically the only case where this doesn't happen.
(I've never been near a tear gas kind of event, but I did witness the Met Police deploy "kettling" for the first time in May 2001, close enough that if I'd not paid attention to the police lines forming up I would have been imprisoned uncomfortably for eight hours.)
Interesting read as a former CBRN instructor NCO (for a non-US military). A 3M 40mm is definitely the way to go with CP3N filters. They were once cheap but seem to be no longer
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
That would be the 3M™ Organic Vapor/Acid Gas Cartridge/Filter 60923 [0]. Replace after each exposure or 30 days after opening the sealed packaging for best results. A clean shave is important for a good air seal.
The absolute best protection would be a PAPR (powered air-purifying respirator) with a TR-6530N filter [1] installed. Something like the 3M Versaflo M-407SG[2] would fit the filter and provide impact resistance. It can be fitted with a Speedglas 9100XXi [3] (or 9100X/V) auto-darkening filter for protection against flashbangs.
This is an equivalent PAPR [3] with a better form factor which also includes ANSI Z87.1 rated impact-protection (helpful against projectiles) and auto-darkening lenses (helpful against flashbangs/pyrotechnics). It also still works fine even if you keep a beard. I believe this is part of the Optrel Helix product line, which advertises 14-hour battery life. However, the listing I linked does not come with organic vapor / acid-gas filtration. That requires a different form factor for the filter, the Optrel ABE1P Combination Filter [4] offers A1B1E1P certification (Protects against organic gases/vapors, inorganic gases, acid gases, and particulates)
As 'closewith added, "CBRN" or "NBC" masks are also a good option - they are rated for chemical/biological/radiation/nuclear contamination and are available as riot gear with good impact-resistance. Look for A2B2E2K2-P3 ratings / certification.
You could also look into something like the Joseph Leslie Dynamiks A3B3E3K3-rated Jumbo canister for 10000 ppm extended exposure. [5]
I've used the same 3M 6011 (organic vapor) filter for years, for tasks like cleaning with ammonia where I'm not really worried about hazardous exposure just nuisance [0]. And it's lasted just fine (extremely off-label use, of course). So with something like tear gas where you're not worried about actual toxicity per se, I'd think that subjective experience would be fine for knowing when it needs to be changed. If you want to be paranoid, it seems like you could also carry a backup fresh set still in the sealed foil.
With the prices for respirators going up (/me gestures at federal "government" attacking our own cities), if I wanted to save money I'd get a knock-off full face respirator from Amazon (or Ali if you're comfortable transiting the import blockade with this specific item), and then genuine cartridges (NOT from Amazon obviously, lol).
[0] for most things I do, I use the 2097 filters which are primarily particulate with just a small amount of activated charcoal for "nuisance vapors". This is all generally with half-face 7500 bodies.
My own experience is that fit is as/more important than filters, and who knows how well civvies will fit their CBRN gear. It's _oppressively_ uncomfortable!
The problem I found was that some of them are designed to keep particulates out but aren't as worried about also keeping particulates in as well. This was relevant-circa 2020. No idea how these rank on that metric.
Actually, just a normal <$10 N95 [0][1] (without an exhalation valve). But they won't stop chemicals, just particles. My family have found they prevent COVID transmission from masked sick members to unmasked family members, as well as from unmasked sick members to masked family members.
I'd say basically all of them in this target market - a respirator with check valves is much more comfortable to use.
For the beginning of Covid I modded my 7500 (half face) to remove the check valve flaps and seal up what would normally be the exhaust ports, making both inhale and exhale go through the 2297 filters. It was harder to breathe, more humid, and developed liquid water accumulation over longer periods.
I would think that if you did the same thing with a full face respirator, it would immediately fog up. If you look at the flow path on them, it's something like atmosphere -> filter -> top face portion -> mouth nose portion -> atmosphere, presumably to keep the part you need to see out of full of dry air.
In many cases, especially for the higher end models, you can spend in the neighborhood of $100 to get an Rx face-shield. On the note of matters that didn't seem to come up much in the article, but that I feel like people should know:
The kind of cartridge you need to withstand teargas is not an N95, as the top comment points out it's quite a bit more involved. The downside of that other than cost and duration of the filter is that you'll feel a lot more resistance on inhaling than you're used to. For some people the combination of something on their face and the feeling of restricted breathing is unbearable, and mid-tear gas attack is a terrible time to realize that.
Consider also that this becomes far more important if you're working hard, say running around or fighting. Anyone who has it in their head to give this a try should keep those factors in mind, as well as get a kit to properly fit-test because again... mid-attack is a terrible time to realize that your fit isn't up to snuff. Likewise with training to don and doff.
In a lot of ways the article feels like clickbait that's extremely self-aware, but not really concerned with the practical reality of what they're implying.
Honestly the 3M 60923 cartridges don't restrict breathing at all. They have great airflow. I've used them all day long in chemical plants, no one complains about that.
Seconded. I've used those exact cartridges. Not for as long of shifts as you, but I'd say the face mask fit is much more important for that.
My DIY-perspective tip is that when you're getting to know the respirator, you can take the filter cartridges off and put your hands over the input ports to feel what fully restricted breathing feels like, make it a known sensation in case it ends up happening. Likewise you can cover the output port and breathe out to do a kind of rough fit test.
Yes, in addition to inserts which are custom to the mask, there are small frames with a thin rubber band to keep them on you. They were great for roughhousing occasions as well as under mask. The key part is the thinness and impermeability of the band allows for a good seal.
As someone with big bulky eye glass lenses and frames I looked up the solution for the CM-6 derived masks, https://www.rigad.com/avec-spectacle-insert-for-cm-6-masks. Sounds like you'd have to get new lenses just for it and put 'em in, and the field of view is not great, but it is feasible.
An amazon affiliate link wrapped in the mantle of edgy resistance. Ignoring that, why would anybody take this site serious for gasmask recommendations? Shallow and fast-food level information.
We live in a world increasingly becoming hypercapitalistic in every facet of life with problems and solutions being marketed together, all fed with algorithms.
"Have you got chronic sebhorric dermatitis, click this link to make it go away".
"You may be eligible for compensation if you bought a Volkswagen"
"Fight the corrupt fascist government, buy a gas mask here"
"Fight the corrupt socialist government, buy a year's supply of Iodine tablets"
All gas masks simply buy the wearer time, and not much time at that...
Automotive Painter shops use an actual filtered external fresh-air feed medical-grade pump, as it avoids whatever mystery compounds are in various paints and cleaners.
Don't cheap out on PPE, as 3M does make good quality filters. =3
The reality is that tear gas is not an effective riot control tool. It works fine against spontaneous mobs of sports fans after their team loses, but it's not especially effective against prepared insurrectionists.
The last time the US faced this level of organized political resistance against lawful federal authority, the Army and National Guard routinely used fixed bayonets to control segregationist protesters. The same technique would work today, but with modern rifles being significantly shorter and hence being less effective bayonet platforms, a dedicated spear might be the better option.
Such weapons, employed in a close-order formation, would be much less lethal than they might seem at first blush. Historical data from 18th and 19th century conflicts shows that, even in battles where bayonet charges happened, there was still an extremely low rate of actual bayonet casualties. Even trained and disciplined soldiers will break and rout rather than let themselves be stabbed with bayonets (or, presumably, spears).
I'd say Jan 6, 2021. But there are so many examples between "bayonets" and now. 2020 Seattle CHOP, 2014/2016 Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, 2011 Occupy Wall Street, 1999 Battle in Seattle, 1992 Ruby Ridge Standoff, 1969 People's Park, the entire civil rights movement era, 1946 Battle of Athens, 1921 Battle of Blair Mountain.
I intentionally alternated between left wing / right wing events. These things aren't limited to one side, and they're somewhat frequent, if a bit cyclical.
Maybe we should talk about the first time the US had this level of political resistance against "lawful authority". That seems like a better analogy for what's going on here.
Also I feel compelled to point out that "lawful authority" does not imply "authority acting lawfully", which is painfully demonstrated by being in a thread discussing the use of respirators in response to government jackboots suppressing lawful first amendment activity. The obvious alternative is to let the protests happen, per our Constitution.
Posting this article in this format reminds me of truly good story writing. Would've been a top 3 pieces of writing all time for me without all of the anecdotes in between. All of the information you need to know is already written without all of the in-your-faceness of the bridge paragraphs between reviews.
Still an amazing story, props to the Verge. But could've been an all time great.
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Great writing.
>When I eventually sat down to write my article about the Portland protests, I had a strange kind of epiphany, if it can even be called that. Out in the real world, when drowning in tear gas and adrenaline
Bad writing.
This is a genius product review right now for all the reasons everyone else thinks it is. I didn't need to read a single one of the authors personal experiences to understand the underlying message, or read ~100 words about their internal struggles to classify Portland as a riot versus a protest. The lack of brevity and conciseness seriously undercuts the absolute geniusness of maliciously compliant product reviews about gas masks in our current political climate.
My comment is about the art of subtlety. Again, this is an amazing article, but it's literally just been flagged by HN because it waxes poetic about politics instead of allowing all of that to be there without saying it. We can all read between the lines.
That makes sense to me. I really enjoyed the personal anecdotes and I thought they made the article a lot stronger for me, but a dry gas mask review would have also been an excellent, albeit different, article.
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Just get the one that everyone else does: NIOSH TC-84A-0510 with protection against "Solid Particles, Organic Vapors, Acid Gases, Ammonia, Formaldehyde, Methylamine". Every lab buys this filter, or its manufacturer equivalent, for dealing with god-knows-what, because this one will handle just about anything.
TC-84A-0510 is not a product. It is a certification for half-face masks + filter combos. The relevant certification for fullface masks+filters is TC-84A-070. (TC-84A-0701 or TC-84A-0704 more specifically)
Handy that McMaster Carr has them 5541T605 Edit, I just noticed you posted the same link that's funny.
I would definitely do a full-face mask. You can buy them at Lowes for painting. The half masks do nothing to protect your eyes. Also try to get Pxx filters as they withstand oils. Some chemicals are oil-soluble and normal Nxx cartridges can’t handle more than one exposure.
The Verge has truly become one of the most respected sites on the web. Some of the best reporting, tech or otherwise, is being done there. Kudos
Agreed. I signed up for a paid subscription last month after I was linked to this article[1] which correctly, clearly, and accurately labeled the administration's claims about that incident as lies. This is journalism, and it is worth money. The half-assed "videos give the appearance of possibly contradicting..." decide-for-yourself garbage printed by places like the NYT isn't worth the cost of sending the bits over the wire.
[1] https://www.theverge.com/policy/859055/minneapolis-renee-goo...
Yeah, this is quality content right here,
> Durable enough to survive a scuffle with a right-wing extremist, even if the bones of your hand do not
While NYT etc mostly stand back as the U.S. crosses the rubicon, what started as a freaking gadget review site seems to employ nearly all the journalists with actual gusto left in America.
The gusto to post an Amazon affiliate listicle?
VIVA LA REVOLUTION LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE!
I don't know...the subject matter stirs the pot nicely in my opinion
I mean if you'd only care about the affiliate revenue, there probably are better niches to serve than citizens looking to protect themselves from tear gas.
They have many other articles directly addressing the rising fascism. That you also only see this as an "affiliate link" without grokking the larger theme of "Gas Masks for tear gas" and how that relates to what ICE is doing to the US is part of the larger problem with contemporary media illiteracy.
Are you sure it is just media illiteracy? Unfortunately, there are people out there that just don't care enough or actually think the US "president" is right and the protestors are dead wrong.
The Brown-Red Scare is the largest contemporary failure in media literacy.
Wired is doing pretty well on that front, too
Are you thinking of Wirecutter? They are a sub brand of NYT, whereas The Verge is part of Vox Media
According to Wikipedia's article on The Verge [1] "up to nine of Engadget's writers, editors, and product developers, including editor-in-chief Joshua Topolsky, left AOL, the company behind that website, to start a new gadget site."
So apparently they were once a 'gadget site'
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Verge
Vox is an active participant in the culture war, just like the NYT.
What does that mean?
I suspect it means he doesn't like their takes.
Note that if you have a beard you should be aware that these types of masks don't work well.
https://pekesafety.com/blogs/news/a-respirator-that-works-wi...
3M 6800 have all but sold out on Amazon, probably because of this review. I had almost forgotten about Portland in 2020. This author has some great writing about the double standard of non-violence as well. 10/10
I would generally use McMaster-Carr whenever possible. They will almost never go out of stock even during national crises. I don't generally trust Amazon for items that I can't validate myself due to counterfeiting, e.g. there's a lot of fake knockoff HEPA filters marketed as OEM.
3M 6000 full-face masks: https://www.mcmaster.com/5541T605/
The image shows just a particulate filter, but the listing actually includes 3M bayonet-style cartridges for chemical exposure.
Zoro still has them in stock. If you haven't heard of them, they are a subsidiary of Grainger, a huge industrial supply company. They seem to ship even faster than Amazon in my experience.
https://www.zoro.com/3m-full-facepiece-reusable-respirator-w...
Buying safety equipment on Amazon is extremely dumb. You won't know that you got a fake until it's too late.
Very recently Amazon announced they'd stop commingling inventory from 3P sellers and themselves, so it should be safer to buy from Amazon in the future (if you look at the specific seller), but still maybe worth avoiding for safety critical items which are difficult to inspect.
As long as they don't make a mistake and send the wrong thing anyway, which happens. You're always better off getting safety critical items from a place that only stocks from a verified supply chain, rather than a place that keep them separate merely by policy.
They still need to prove that isn't just a saying. A good reputation takes a long time to develop and very little time to lose. With safety gear I would not take a chance.
If I'm going to take a chance I'd prefer to support a small company. Amazon is big, but I find most things they sell I can find a small company that sells the same for a similar price and they know their product and so will direct me to what works well.
Put aside politics and anti-tear gas use cases: everyone should just have a full face gas mask for all hacker-ish activities, like painting. Skip half-face, go for full face. Half face models don't just leave eyes exposed but hurts the back of the neck. Maybe I'm wearing it wrong, but the headstrap for full face is much more comfortable. They also seal a lot better.
More random tidbits: You'd semi-obviously want a sacrificial wrap over the mask if you're painting, as well as few spare cartridges. There are particulate filters that are just regular paper masks, organic vapor cans for painting, and couple of acid cans for toxic gases. DYOR and use the right one for the task. Particulate filters go on top of gas cans on the iconic 3M 6000 series masks; it's not integrated to the can. The cans also technically only last few hours after opening the package, so technically you should be replacing twice daily. They also can't protect against large amounts of toxic substances like videogame thick green vapors of alien weapons, only what's somewhat casually filtered. In e.g. inside an active volcano, go for full scuba or something that don't rely on filtering. The reason why some masks use pair of cans as opposed to one can, is just for easier breathing. The performance on paper is the same; you can seal off one port with something if you want. The improvement is maybe not negligible, but you get used to breathing through masks quickly anyway. The mini mask that covers mouth and nose inside a full face mask exists to help clear condensation by forcing you to breathe in fresh air around its front surface and force exhalation through the exhaust valve. Removing it will steam up the shield. The air drawn in is filtered, but exhaust is not; if the wearer is infected with something, the mask won't help stop the spread.
TL;DR: gas masks is its own mini rabbit hole.
> everyone should just have a full face gas mask for all hacker-ish activities, like painting
Not everyone who wears eyeglasses, unless you're prepared to add another several hundred dollars for the lens holder and set of prescription lenses.
I do have the 3M 6800 full face respirator but almost never use it. The silicone 7xxx series is much more comfortable than the rubber 6xxx series, and the 750x silicone half mask is reasonably priced. Augment with comfortable googles as necessary (vented ones work for me since I'm painting, not rioting).
"I had forgotten that there could ever be domestic conflicts where law enforcement were not themselves belligerents."
ouch. Must be weird living where you live.
As the author says, most incidents of this kind, in most of the world, are protesters vs. police, and the police have .. a substantial amount of control over whether the situation escalates or not. Including just opening up with tear gas.
Conflicting football ultras is basically the only case where this doesn't happen.
(I've never been near a tear gas kind of event, but I did witness the Met Police deploy "kettling" for the first time in May 2001, close enough that if I'd not paid attention to the police lines forming up I would have been imprisoned uncomfortably for eight hours.)
Interesting read as a former CBRN instructor NCO (for a non-US military). A 3M 40mm is definitely the way to go with CP3N filters. They were once cheap but seem to be no longer
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
That would be the 3M™ Organic Vapor/Acid Gas Cartridge/Filter 60923 [0]. Replace after each exposure or 30 days after opening the sealed packaging for best results. A clean shave is important for a good air seal.
The absolute best protection would be a PAPR (powered air-purifying respirator) with a TR-6530N filter [1] installed. Something like the 3M Versaflo M-407SG[2] would fit the filter and provide impact resistance. It can be fitted with a Speedglas 9100XXi [3] (or 9100X/V) auto-darkening filter for protection against flashbangs.
This is an equivalent PAPR [3] with a better form factor which also includes ANSI Z87.1 rated impact-protection (helpful against projectiles) and auto-darkening lenses (helpful against flashbangs/pyrotechnics). It also still works fine even if you keep a beard. I believe this is part of the Optrel Helix product line, which advertises 14-hour battery life. However, the listing I linked does not come with organic vapor / acid-gas filtration. That requires a different form factor for the filter, the Optrel ABE1P Combination Filter [4] offers A1B1E1P certification (Protects against organic gases/vapors, inorganic gases, acid gases, and particulates)
As 'closewith added, "CBRN" or "NBC" masks are also a good option - they are rated for chemical/biological/radiation/nuclear contamination and are available as riot gear with good impact-resistance. Look for A2B2E2K2-P3 ratings / certification.
You could also look into something like the Joseph Leslie Dynamiks A3B3E3K3-rated Jumbo canister for 10000 ppm extended exposure. [5]
0: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/dc/v000075263/
1: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/cartridges/manufacturer-mo...
2: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1892506O/3m-versaflo-m-4...
3: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/speedglas-welding-helmets-us/spe...
3: https://www.mcmaster.com/9258n17/
4: https://optrel.us/product/upgradekit-combifilter-swiss-air-5...
5: https://www.josephlesliedynamiks.com/brochures/Gas_Filters.p...
I've used the same 3M 6011 (organic vapor) filter for years, for tasks like cleaning with ammonia where I'm not really worried about hazardous exposure just nuisance [0]. And it's lasted just fine (extremely off-label use, of course). So with something like tear gas where you're not worried about actual toxicity per se, I'd think that subjective experience would be fine for knowing when it needs to be changed. If you want to be paranoid, it seems like you could also carry a backup fresh set still in the sealed foil.
With the prices for respirators going up (/me gestures at federal "government" attacking our own cities), if I wanted to save money I'd get a knock-off full face respirator from Amazon (or Ali if you're comfortable transiting the import blockade with this specific item), and then genuine cartridges (NOT from Amazon obviously, lol).
[0] for most things I do, I use the 2097 filters which are primarily particulate with just a small amount of activated charcoal for "nuisance vapors". This is all generally with half-face 7500 bodies.
I wonder how that performs vs the CP3N.
My own experience is that fit is as/more important than filters, and who knows how well civvies will fit their CBRN gear. It's _oppressively_ uncomfortable!
The problem I found was that some of them are designed to keep particulates out but aren't as worried about also keeping particulates in as well. This was relevant-circa 2020. No idea how these rank on that metric.
Surely that would be a cleanroom-style bunny suit?
Actually, just a normal <$10 N95 [0][1] (without an exhalation valve). But they won't stop chemicals, just particles. My family have found they prevent COVID transmission from masked sick members to unmasked family members, as well as from unmasked sick members to masked family members.
0: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b00038112/
1: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b00037933/
I'd say basically all of them in this target market - a respirator with check valves is much more comfortable to use.
For the beginning of Covid I modded my 7500 (half face) to remove the check valve flaps and seal up what would normally be the exhaust ports, making both inhale and exhale go through the 2297 filters. It was harder to breathe, more humid, and developed liquid water accumulation over longer periods.
I would think that if you did the same thing with a full face respirator, it would immediately fog up. If you look at the flow path on them, it's something like atmosphere -> filter -> top face portion -> mouth nose portion -> atmosphere, presumably to keep the part you need to see out of full of dry air.
None of which are practical if you need to wear glasses.
In many cases, especially for the higher end models, you can spend in the neighborhood of $100 to get an Rx face-shield. On the note of matters that didn't seem to come up much in the article, but that I feel like people should know:
The kind of cartridge you need to withstand teargas is not an N95, as the top comment points out it's quite a bit more involved. The downside of that other than cost and duration of the filter is that you'll feel a lot more resistance on inhaling than you're used to. For some people the combination of something on their face and the feeling of restricted breathing is unbearable, and mid-tear gas attack is a terrible time to realize that.
Consider also that this becomes far more important if you're working hard, say running around or fighting. Anyone who has it in their head to give this a try should keep those factors in mind, as well as get a kit to properly fit-test because again... mid-attack is a terrible time to realize that your fit isn't up to snuff. Likewise with training to don and doff.
In a lot of ways the article feels like clickbait that's extremely self-aware, but not really concerned with the practical reality of what they're implying.
Honestly the 3M 60923 cartridges don't restrict breathing at all. They have great airflow. I've used them all day long in chemical plants, no one complains about that.
Thirding this. I can wear one all day in hot weather with a half mask on climbing ladders. I did this to paint my house during fire season one year.
Seconded. I've used those exact cartridges. Not for as long of shifts as you, but I'd say the face mask fit is much more important for that.
My DIY-perspective tip is that when you're getting to know the respirator, you can take the filter cartridges off and put your hands over the input ports to feel what fully restricted breathing feels like, make it a known sensation in case it ends up happening. Likewise you can cover the output port and breathe out to do a kind of rough fit test.
I save my hotel key cards and keep a few of them in each of the safety cabinets and kits.
You can hold up a key card to cover each bayonet filter and it seals it perfectly for a quick test at any time.
I usually put those in a parts drawer for use when opening electronic devices built with clipped together plastic cases.
Good tip, though! I'll have to try that next time I'm using the bayonets.
Fantastic fit-test tip.
There is a glasses kit available for the listed 3M 6800.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v101296043/
Yes, in addition to inserts which are custom to the mask, there are small frames with a thin rubber band to keep them on you. They were great for roughhousing occasions as well as under mask. The key part is the thinness and impermeability of the band allows for a good seal.
https://eyeglass.com/products/criss-optical-collection-mag-1...
As someone with big bulky eye glass lenses and frames I looked up the solution for the CM-6 derived masks, https://www.rigad.com/avec-spectacle-insert-for-cm-6-masks. Sounds like you'd have to get new lenses just for it and put 'em in, and the field of view is not great, but it is feasible.
An amazon affiliate link wrapped in the mantle of edgy resistance. Ignoring that, why would anybody take this site serious for gasmask recommendations? Shallow and fast-food level information.
We live in a world increasingly becoming hypercapitalistic in every facet of life with problems and solutions being marketed together, all fed with algorithms.
"Have you got chronic sebhorric dermatitis, click this link to make it go away".
"You may be eligible for compensation if you bought a Volkswagen"
"Fight the corrupt fascist government, buy a gas mask here"
"Fight the corrupt socialist government, buy a year's supply of Iodine tablets"
Sorry, it aligns with my politics so I rate it as one of the best
All gas masks simply buy the wearer time, and not much time at that...
Automotive Painter shops use an actual filtered external fresh-air feed medical-grade pump, as it avoids whatever mystery compounds are in various paints and cleaners.
Don't cheap out on PPE, as 3M does make good quality filters. =3
This article was not about using gas masks for industrial purposes lol
Indeed, but it seemed like the simplest way to explain shorter protection times with higher exposure levels. =3
Why is this low effort article on top here? It's absolutely not a "Best" list and lacks professionalism.
Yet another interesting article flagged because it touches on American politics.
What's the procedure for flagged articles become unflagged? Maybe do I need more karma or something before I can vouch for them?
https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented
Normally most users can vouch for flagged submissions. The fact that this is non-vouchable is interesting.
Could it be that people who have commented in a flagged post are forbidden from vouching?
That's my suspicion. Likely with an IP association as well for people with alt-accounts.
The link you posted says users can only vouch for dead submissions, though?
Next up: tips and tricks on setting up your fortified anti-US-federal-government militia compound.
They're autonomous zones, dad. You don't get it.
The reality is that tear gas is not an effective riot control tool. It works fine against spontaneous mobs of sports fans after their team loses, but it's not especially effective against prepared insurrectionists.
The last time the US faced this level of organized political resistance against lawful federal authority, the Army and National Guard routinely used fixed bayonets to control segregationist protesters. The same technique would work today, but with modern rifles being significantly shorter and hence being less effective bayonet platforms, a dedicated spear might be the better option.
Such weapons, employed in a close-order formation, would be much less lethal than they might seem at first blush. Historical data from 18th and 19th century conflicts shows that, even in battles where bayonet charges happened, there was still an extremely low rate of actual bayonet casualties. Even trained and disciplined soldiers will break and rout rather than let themselves be stabbed with bayonets (or, presumably, spears).
The most recent organized resistance was not segregation but the 1970s bombings. There were 2000 bombings in less than two years.
Wasn't "the last time" in 2020?
I'd say Jan 6, 2021. But there are so many examples between "bayonets" and now. 2020 Seattle CHOP, 2014/2016 Occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, 2011 Occupy Wall Street, 1999 Battle in Seattle, 1992 Ruby Ridge Standoff, 1969 People's Park, the entire civil rights movement era, 1946 Battle of Athens, 1921 Battle of Blair Mountain.
I intentionally alternated between left wing / right wing events. These things aren't limited to one side, and they're somewhat frequent, if a bit cyclical.
>Even trained and disciplined soldiers will break and rout rather than let themselves be stabbed with bayonets (or, presumably, spears).
What if the organizers have drilled it into their heads that they won't use real spears? "WHY DID YOU HAVE REAL BULLETS?!?!?"
Poe’s Law strikes again. Surely you’re not for real?
Maybe we should talk about the first time the US had this level of political resistance against "lawful authority". That seems like a better analogy for what's going on here.
Also I feel compelled to point out that "lawful authority" does not imply "authority acting lawfully", which is painfully demonstrated by being in a thread discussing the use of respirators in response to government jackboots suppressing lawful first amendment activity. The obvious alternative is to let the protests happen, per our Constitution.
Posting this article in this format reminds me of truly good story writing. Would've been a top 3 pieces of writing all time for me without all of the anecdotes in between. All of the information you need to know is already written without all of the in-your-faceness of the bridge paragraphs between reviews.
Still an amazing story, props to the Verge. But could've been an all time great.
Bewildering comment. Without the anecdotes, this is just a product review. /s?
You misunderstand.
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Great writing.
>When I eventually sat down to write my article about the Portland protests, I had a strange kind of epiphany, if it can even be called that. Out in the real world, when drowning in tear gas and adrenaline
Bad writing.
This is a genius product review right now for all the reasons everyone else thinks it is. I didn't need to read a single one of the authors personal experiences to understand the underlying message, or read ~100 words about their internal struggles to classify Portland as a riot versus a protest. The lack of brevity and conciseness seriously undercuts the absolute geniusness of maliciously compliant product reviews about gas masks in our current political climate.
My comment is about the art of subtlety. Again, this is an amazing article, but it's literally just been flagged by HN because it waxes poetic about politics instead of allowing all of that to be there without saying it. We can all read between the lines.
That makes sense to me. I really enjoyed the personal anecdotes and I thought they made the article a lot stronger for me, but a dry gas mask review would have also been an excellent, albeit different, article.