How do they justify Immigration and Customs enforcement working domestic flights and departures in general? Isn't ICE's scope supposed to be limited to what/who is coming into the country from foreign countries?
Of course, that's a rhetorical question. When you're an autocrat, you do not need to justify your actions.
ICE’s scope isn’t who is coming into the country — that’s CBP’s scope. ICE’s scope is supposed to be those committing immigration offences who have already entered the country (either because the CBP failed to catch them, or because they were admitted but never left).
The only difficulty justifying this is ICE’s power to stop and question people, and an airport is no different to a random street from that point of view. Do they have probable cause? What suffices as probable cause?
And once you have probable cause, you run into the problem 8 USC 1304(e) creates: someone who doesn’t have documentation proving their legal immigration status falls into one of two categories, they’re either a citizen, or they’re an immigrant violating that section.
(And this is looking at it from a simple legalistic point of view, ignoring any questions about ICE’s behaviour or powers!)
> And once you have probable cause, you run into the problem 8 USC 1304(e) creates: someone who doesn’t have documentation proving their legal immigration status falls into one of two categories, they’re either a citizen, or they’re an immigrant violating that section.
So hopefully if you are tourist from abroad, CBP will give you stamp into your passport, otherwise you have entered "illegally". They are not always stamping passports.
CBP is doing it electronically for quite some time, as they can see your date of entry in the system and they are not controlling your date of leave against passport when you are leaving USA (you won't even meet CBP at that stage), but it is all checked electronically.
Last time I got stamped. But it seems like an exception than a rule.
At least in the large airports, the international flights come in to a separate terminal. Will ICE limit their involvement to that terminal only, and only inbound flights? Immigration and Customs have no business on the outbound side or with domestic passengers.
Some international flights arrive in to domestic US terminals. These are from a limited set of countries where passengers have cleared US immigration in the departure country.
Canada, Ireland and the UAE are the major three, plus Aruba, Barbados and Bermuda.
Seems like a big own-goal for the administration to inject an agency which (according to polls[1]) is quite broadly hated into the daily lives of millions.
Politically they're just going from failure (immigration policy broadly considered a failure) to failure (starting a new forever war in the middle east is universally hated) to failure (this).
It's no wonder they're trying to burn the election system to the ground to prevent a fair election from occurring this year. It's the only way they're staying out of jail, especially Tom "cash bribes only" Homan.
Misinformation, low voter turnout, and an electoral system that massively over-represents people living in areas of low population density and underrepresents those living in areas of high population density.
That’s ignoring any possibility of interference with insecure voting or tallying computers.
You could blame the backing of the richest oligarchs in the world, you could blame a morally bankrupt culture amongst a large chunk of the electorate, but at the end of the day it was a very tight race and there was a global wave of incumbent losses[1], regardless of the incumbent party's position.
Between 2021 and 2024 the world went on a rollercoaster ride. Pandemic economic stimulus made everyone feel rich in 2021, and then harsh monetary tightening led to everyone feeling like their world was collapsing in 2024. They punished whoever was in charge at the time.
Democrats funded, armed and protected a live-streamed genocide so horrific that roughly a third of their own hard-core base (Biden 2020 voters) couldn't bring themselves to vote for Harris, even in a close race against Trump [0].
There are other reasons Dems lost, also important. Still, genocide remains the blazing neon-red 12-ton elephant in the room. And there seems to be absolutely no sign of owning that fact, which means that no lessons will be learned or policies changed.
For all its flaws, TSA (at least under previous administrations) did a lot of design thinking work around how to streamline flows through airports, minimize travel stress and conflict, and optimize to minimize traveler complaints while continuing to maintain security.
Bringing in shock theater optimized staff is a particularly poor fit for a scenario that will impact a disproportionately voting and bipartisan pool of citizens.
There's a reason advertising in airports is generally targeted at corporate leaders and decision makers.
If your goal is to intimidate and frighten people into submitting to you, then sending armed, masked "shock theater" thugs in should accomplish that goal.
They continued to maintain the illusion of security. The underwear bomber and shoe bomber had no problem smuggling explosives onto an aircraft directly under their noses.
Their idea of "security" is to get you into a scanner so they can stare at and save images of your naked body. Or to buy really expensive "sniffer" robots that don't work in one of the most corrupt government contracts recently known about.
Meanwhile, cockpit doors still have several functional deficiencies that make pilots vulnerable to the original attack that led to the creation of this derelict agency.
Straight white US citizen male here. This scares the shit out of me. I travel for work all the time, but understanding that we will now have barely trained, and in many cases completely lawless, consequence-free federal officers in direct, high stress, public areas where lots of people are constantly passing through seems like an absolute recipe for tragedy.
This will 100% make me reconsider travel and avoid airports with ICE agents. I think the writing on the wall is clear, nobody is safe.
Throwaway accounts and more propaganda isn’t proof of anything. I think it’s pretty clear that untrained, unaccountable armed people who have already killed multiple US citizens that they have no jurisdiction over is a real-world worry that people have.
It’s silly to dismiss rational, logic-based worry as “propaganda”.
Yes US citizens that are putting themselves in a situation they shouldn’t have been in to begin with while threatening and provoking a violent reaction. And we pikachu face at the result.
You’re the one cowering in fear of federal agents doing what they’ve already been doing for 20 years. One of us is obviously falling for the fear mongering here.
> Yes US citizens that are putting themselves in a situation they shouldn’t have been in to begin with while threatening and provoking a violent reaction.
This is not at all true. Plus, it's inconsequential -- ICE agents have no authority over US citizens except in extremely limited circumstances (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/9f4518c4-8a32-474a-bd92-3f1...), and even if they did, being able to arrest someone, file charges, and work their way through the justice system is the answer... Not killing people on the streets.
As they should be. I don’t want to fund DHS and I’m happy my reps are doing their job to keep it shut down. Funding TSA specifically is acceptable and has in fact been voted down in the senate by republicans several times now.
What’s left of FEMA? Anyway their disaster response is not impacted by the lapse in funding. They’re currently on the ground doing something or other in Hawaii.
I don't know if I'd phrase it like that. It does show they see ICE as a fix all police they can deploy for a wide variety of purposes though. ICE is better funded than some branches of the military, and they are demonstrating they are willing to use ICE for whatever they think needs to be done.
How do they justify Immigration and Customs enforcement working domestic flights and departures in general? Isn't ICE's scope supposed to be limited to what/who is coming into the country from foreign countries?
Of course, that's a rhetorical question. When you're an autocrat, you do not need to justify your actions.
ICE’s scope isn’t who is coming into the country — that’s CBP’s scope. ICE’s scope is supposed to be those committing immigration offences who have already entered the country (either because the CBP failed to catch them, or because they were admitted but never left).
The only difficulty justifying this is ICE’s power to stop and question people, and an airport is no different to a random street from that point of view. Do they have probable cause? What suffices as probable cause?
And once you have probable cause, you run into the problem 8 USC 1304(e) creates: someone who doesn’t have documentation proving their legal immigration status falls into one of two categories, they’re either a citizen, or they’re an immigrant violating that section.
(And this is looking at it from a simple legalistic point of view, ignoring any questions about ICE’s behaviour or powers!)
> And once you have probable cause, you run into the problem 8 USC 1304(e) creates: someone who doesn’t have documentation proving their legal immigration status falls into one of two categories, they’re either a citizen, or they’re an immigrant violating that section.
So hopefully if you are tourist from abroad, CBP will give you stamp into your passport, otherwise you have entered "illegally". They are not always stamping passports.
Isn’t the stamp necessary?
Under what circumstances would they not?
CBP is doing it electronically for quite some time, as they can see your date of entry in the system and they are not controlling your date of leave against passport when you are leaving USA (you won't even meet CBP at that stage), but it is all checked electronically.
Last time I got stamped. But it seems like an exception than a rule.
https://www.swlaw.com/publication/immigration-alert-cbp-elim...
I can already see myself arguing with ICE officer that CBP is not stamping passport for years.
[dead]
ICE has a lot of funding, more than some branches of the military.
This demonstrates they see ICE as their fix all police force, and that they are willing to deploy ICE to do whatever they think needs to be done.
ICE is $11B.
Coast Guard is $14B.
Not sure if you’ve recently awoken from a coma but ICE just got $75 billion in appropriations to spend over the next four years.
Virtually all commercial passenger flights are to international airports.
At least in the large airports, the international flights come in to a separate terminal. Will ICE limit their involvement to that terminal only, and only inbound flights? Immigration and Customs have no business on the outbound side or with domestic passengers.
Some international flights arrive in to domestic US terminals. These are from a limited set of countries where passengers have cleared US immigration in the departure country.
Canada, Ireland and the UAE are the major three, plus Aruba, Barbados and Bermuda.
Since they will support tsa operations, I’m going to assume they will be at the outbound security checkpoints. Both domestic and international.
Seems like a big own-goal for the administration to inject an agency which (according to polls[1]) is quite broadly hated into the daily lives of millions.
Politically they're just going from failure (immigration policy broadly considered a failure) to failure (starting a new forever war in the middle east is universally hated) to failure (this).
It's no wonder they're trying to burn the election system to the ground to prevent a fair election from occurring this year. It's the only way they're staying out of jail, especially Tom "cash bribes only" Homan.
[1] https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/the-actions-of-ice-febru...
How did they get elected?
Misinformation, low voter turnout, and an electoral system that massively over-represents people living in areas of low population density and underrepresents those living in areas of high population density.
That’s ignoring any possibility of interference with insecure voting or tallying computers.
You could blame the backing of the richest oligarchs in the world, you could blame a morally bankrupt culture amongst a large chunk of the electorate, but at the end of the day it was a very tight race and there was a global wave of incumbent losses[1], regardless of the incumbent party's position.
Between 2021 and 2024 the world went on a rollercoaster ride. Pandemic economic stimulus made everyone feel rich in 2021, and then harsh monetary tightening led to everyone feeling like their world was collapsing in 2024. They punished whoever was in charge at the time.
[1] https://www.visionofhumanity.org/2024-the-year-incumbent-gov...
Democrats funded, armed and protected a live-streamed genocide so horrific that roughly a third of their own hard-core base (Biden 2020 voters) couldn't bring themselves to vote for Harris, even in a close race against Trump [0].
There are other reasons Dems lost, also important. Still, genocide remains the blazing neon-red 12-ton elephant in the room. And there seems to be absolutely no sign of owning that fact, which means that no lessons will be learned or policies changed.
0 - https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling
For all its flaws, TSA (at least under previous administrations) did a lot of design thinking work around how to streamline flows through airports, minimize travel stress and conflict, and optimize to minimize traveler complaints while continuing to maintain security.
Bringing in shock theater optimized staff is a particularly poor fit for a scenario that will impact a disproportionately voting and bipartisan pool of citizens.
There's a reason advertising in airports is generally targeted at corporate leaders and decision makers.
If your goal is to intimidate and frighten people into submitting to you, then sending armed, masked "shock theater" thugs in should accomplish that goal.
> while continuing to maintain security.
They continued to maintain the illusion of security. The underwear bomber and shoe bomber had no problem smuggling explosives onto an aircraft directly under their noses.
Their idea of "security" is to get you into a scanner so they can stare at and save images of your naked body. Or to buy really expensive "sniffer" robots that don't work in one of the most corrupt government contracts recently known about.
Meanwhile, cockpit doors still have several functional deficiencies that make pilots vulnerable to the original attack that led to the creation of this derelict agency.
Seems ICE is basically just a slush fund to use wherever they see fit.
Straight white US citizen male here. This scares the shit out of me. I travel for work all the time, but understanding that we will now have barely trained, and in many cases completely lawless, consequence-free federal officers in direct, high stress, public areas where lots of people are constantly passing through seems like an absolute recipe for tragedy.
This will 100% make me reconsider travel and avoid airports with ICE agents. I think the writing on the wall is clear, nobody is safe.
[flagged]
Throwaway accounts and more propaganda isn’t proof of anything. I think it’s pretty clear that untrained, unaccountable armed people who have already killed multiple US citizens that they have no jurisdiction over is a real-world worry that people have.
It’s silly to dismiss rational, logic-based worry as “propaganda”.
Yes US citizens that are putting themselves in a situation they shouldn’t have been in to begin with while threatening and provoking a violent reaction. And we pikachu face at the result.
You’re the one cowering in fear of federal agents doing what they’ve already been doing for 20 years. One of us is obviously falling for the fear mongering here.
> Yes US citizens that are putting themselves in a situation they shouldn’t have been in to begin with while threatening and provoking a violent reaction.
This is not at all true. Plus, it's inconsequential -- ICE agents have no authority over US citizens except in extremely limited circumstances (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/9f4518c4-8a32-474a-bd92-3f1...), and even if they did, being able to arrest someone, file charges, and work their way through the justice system is the answer... Not killing people on the streets.
how many habeas petitions were there in previous admins?
Keep in mind that the Democrats have proposed five bills to fund the TSA, and the Republicans have shot them all down.
This reichstag fire is manufactured.
Democrats are explicitly opposed to a clean DHS funding bill with no changes.
As they should be. I don’t want to fund DHS and I’m happy my reps are doing their job to keep it shut down. Funding TSA specifically is acceptable and has in fact been voted down in the senate by republicans several times now.
Why do you oppose FEMA funding?
What’s left of FEMA? Anyway their disaster response is not impacted by the lapse in funding. They’re currently on the ground doing something or other in Hawaii.
This is straight up untrue. There are clean bill proposals to fund TSA that Republicans have rejected. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/are-the-proposed-tsa-fundin...
> They aren't clean bills, so this is absolutely irrelevant.
I mean its not really irrelevant, its a calculated move from both sides.
Their bills are the clean bills. Yesterday's vote was a simple yea or nay for TSA funding. The Republicans voted against it.
The GOP refuses to fund the TSA without tying a whole bunch of other fascist shit to it. This crisis is manufactured.
Democrats will not vote for a clean DHS funding bill. Kicking the can on FEMA funding is one hell of a political gambit.
They'll vote for a clean TSA funding bill. Why are the reps tying all the star chamber shit they are doing with ICE to TSA funding?
Cool, so no FEMA funding. Good luck with the next disaster everyone, Democrats are politically grandstanding again.
I'm sure they'll vote for a clean FEMA bill, too.
Huh? The Democrats bill did not include FEMA funding.
Give them a clean FEMA bill, and they'll vote for it.
Step 2 in a nazi takeover of the United States. More is coming.
I don't know if I'd phrase it like that. It does show they see ICE as a fix all police they can deploy for a wide variety of purposes though. ICE is better funded than some branches of the military, and they are demonstrating they are willing to use ICE for whatever they think needs to be done.
It is clear that a more centralised system is being established which is progression towards authoritarianism.
The US tourism industry must be just lapping this up ...
"Visit the USA ... starting your holiday off wiv your papers, and a bang! Schnell !!! "
This country is a shithole