Very cool. I live in Japan and see NES carts in all the second hand stores that are everywhere here. Very tempting but in the end I know I wouldn't play it. Whenever I go down a "weee let's try retro" path I lose interest after five minutes
Similar issue for me -- I kept my childhood collection and slowly added to it, but hardly ever actually played anything -- until I got a Retron 2 HD that can handle both NES and SNES games, outputting to HDMI.
And then I got the wireless 8bitdo controllers that can work with the original NES/SNES ports, because fuck cables (briefly tried using OG controllers and it was awful).
Now I actually play the games a decent amount, and my wife plays Tetris or Dr Mario all the time.
I kind of modded my GBA a while back, and bought some upgrades like a better display and an sdcard using cartridge.
Now it's my travel device when I'm on holiday or having no energy left to focus on code. It's pretty convenient only because of the sdcard cartridge adapter.
Did not regret spending 50 bucks for the mods. Would heavily recommend.
Great write up, thank you. Actually I've been messing around with ARM assembly lately so have been keeping my eyes open for a cheap used GBA. There are a lot of them here, but most are close to 100usd and in really rough shape. So your link may come in handy someday :)
It's kind of a shame to destroy original machines for chips isn't it? Especially when clone manufacturers have been putting out NOAC clones for decades.
In case anyone follows the review back to https://www.crowdsupply.com/tall-dog-electronics/tinynes - I've been waiting since the beginning of the year for an update on an order (despite an order ID and emailing multiple times).
I don't think they still exist? Sounds like it used to be cool tech though.
This part stood out. Afaik there is no NES with RGB output from the PPU. Those PPUs are only found in the PlayChoice-10 arcade hardware, and while they can be swapped into a NES, they are rare and expensive.
The alternative is the NESRGB mod, which replaces (part of?) the PPU with custom logic.
If you're referring to a toploader NES (NES-101), it does not support RGB out of the box, and actually only has an RF-out jack back there.
A top-loading Famicom (Famicom AV, HVC-101) instead has the Multi-Out port similar to the SNES, N64 and GameCube. However, it doesn't support RGB out of the box, and needs to be modified.
You can modify a NES-101 for RGB output as well, the issue is for the NES-101 you also need to also add the Multi-Out port to replace the RF output.
Typically the NESRGB board is what most folks will add to support RGB output. Again, for an NES-101 you have to physically add the Multi-Out port as well.
-- -----
With a Multi-Out port you now have new options for suitably modified consoles to go from the Multi-Out to Mini-HDMI with something like the RAD2X which has a vastly simplified RetroTink multiplier/upscaler inline to give you a "plug-and-play" HDMI output that detects Composite, S-Video or RGB and outputs appropriately without any need to configure. That cable works across the Famicom AV, SNES/SFC, N64 and GameCube. It adds about 53 microseconds of latency, or ~1/315th of a frame.
However you can still do Multi-Out to Composite, Multi-Out to S-Video, or Multi-Out to RGB if you wish to use some other multiplier/scaler such as an OSSC or anything else you have.
Long story short, you can have an amazing picture, with a simple HDMI adapter, on nearly any old console at this point. You have to either learn to solder, or you can pay someone to do it. There's a lot of options from simply buying an upscaler and plugging whatever you have in, to modifying for maximum image quality and/or ease-of-use.
Generally, I recommend most folks "keep it simple" or at least have the "easiest to use" option (in lieu of maximum quality) on hand. If you can take it out of storage, hook it up, and start playing within 2 minutes, generally that removes the friction you'd have and you'll actually play it. Flash carts are also a great "friction remover".
For those who like their old Game Boy, Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance, remember that the SNES had Super Game Boy/2, and the GameCube had the Game Boy Player (also supported GBA). There's a lot to be said for playing those handheld games on a TV, with a wireless Nintendo WaveBird controller.
Though for those chasing what's possible, those options exist too, but trade off that "pick-up-and-play" factor :)
It is a lot of work and usually not cheap to get old consoles to capture properly, so I am only bothering with Nintendo consoles as that is what my childhood was. At the time of writing, I have solutions to play games on original hardware from every console apart from the Nintendo 64 and Nintendo DS family. Not because it is not possible, but rather that I can not justify the expense at the moment.
That would be cool... in 2001. After emulation and such, I had more interest on emulating old and weird hardware such as the WonderSwan, Pokémon MIni and Neo Geo Pocket.
Yeah, a proper mini NES would just be a dongle that attached to a cartridge. It's not hard to make an NES equivalent. It's kinda weird that people want these "authentic" things, since you can emulate them in a toenail form factor. The people who think emulation or fpgas aren't good enough are dumb people.
Very cool. I live in Japan and see NES carts in all the second hand stores that are everywhere here. Very tempting but in the end I know I wouldn't play it. Whenever I go down a "weee let's try retro" path I lose interest after five minutes
Similar issue for me -- I kept my childhood collection and slowly added to it, but hardly ever actually played anything -- until I got a Retron 2 HD that can handle both NES and SNES games, outputting to HDMI.
And then I got the wireless 8bitdo controllers that can work with the original NES/SNES ports, because fuck cables (briefly tried using OG controllers and it was awful).
Now I actually play the games a decent amount, and my wife plays Tetris or Dr Mario all the time.
I kind of modded my GBA a while back, and bought some upgrades like a better display and an sdcard using cartridge.
Now it's my travel device when I'm on holiday or having no energy left to focus on code. It's pretty convenient only because of the sdcard cartridge adapter.
Did not regret spending 50 bucks for the mods. Would heavily recommend.
[1] https://cookie.engineer/projects/hardware/gameboy-advance.ht...
Great write up, thank you. Actually I've been messing around with ARM assembly lately so have been keeping my eyes open for a cheap used GBA. There are a lot of them here, but most are close to 100usd and in really rough shape. So your link may come in handy someday :)
I make these! Hi!
Mouser (Crowd Supply) is backordered, but coincidentally I’m shipping units to them in two weeks!
Also, RGB Generator coming soon (solderless RGB upgrade board that still uses the original PPU chip; like NESRGB but better, cheaper, and tiny)
It's kind of a shame to destroy original machines for chips isn't it? Especially when clone manufacturers have been putting out NOAC clones for decades.
In case anyone follows the review back to https://www.crowdsupply.com/tall-dog-electronics/tinynes - I've been waiting since the beginning of the year for an update on an order (despite an order ID and emailing multiple times).
I don't think they still exist? Sounds like it used to be cool tech though.
Crowd Supply (Mouser) is backordered, but they’re getting units this month!
Feel free to contact me directly dan@tall-dog.com and I’ll get you sorted out
Sent, thanks!
This article is from Feb 2023.
Pretty neat, but not something new.
The blog text talks about the review, but most of the review itself is only in the video. In case you were wondering.
> Later revisions of the PPU did offer RGB output options but most NES and Famicom systems had the single pin output.
Anyone have any insight on this? The article does not elaborate.
I have a “New-style” NES. Do I have the “upgraded” PPU?
This part stood out. Afaik there is no NES with RGB output from the PPU. Those PPUs are only found in the PlayChoice-10 arcade hardware, and while they can be swapped into a NES, they are rare and expensive.
The alternative is the NESRGB mod, which replaces (part of?) the PPU with custom logic.
If you're referring to a toploader NES (NES-101), it does not support RGB out of the box, and actually only has an RF-out jack back there.
A top-loading Famicom (Famicom AV, HVC-101) instead has the Multi-Out port similar to the SNES, N64 and GameCube. However, it doesn't support RGB out of the box, and needs to be modified.
You can modify a NES-101 for RGB output as well, the issue is for the NES-101 you also need to also add the Multi-Out port to replace the RF output.
Typically the NESRGB board is what most folks will add to support RGB output. Again, for an NES-101 you have to physically add the Multi-Out port as well.
-- -----
With a Multi-Out port you now have new options for suitably modified consoles to go from the Multi-Out to Mini-HDMI with something like the RAD2X which has a vastly simplified RetroTink multiplier/upscaler inline to give you a "plug-and-play" HDMI output that detects Composite, S-Video or RGB and outputs appropriately without any need to configure. That cable works across the Famicom AV, SNES/SFC, N64 and GameCube. It adds about 53 microseconds of latency, or ~1/315th of a frame.
However you can still do Multi-Out to Composite, Multi-Out to S-Video, or Multi-Out to RGB if you wish to use some other multiplier/scaler such as an OSSC or anything else you have.
This video by RetroRGB will go over things: https://youtu.be/O4HBvpRIwa4
-- -----
Long story short, you can have an amazing picture, with a simple HDMI adapter, on nearly any old console at this point. You have to either learn to solder, or you can pay someone to do it. There's a lot of options from simply buying an upscaler and plugging whatever you have in, to modifying for maximum image quality and/or ease-of-use.
Generally, I recommend most folks "keep it simple" or at least have the "easiest to use" option (in lieu of maximum quality) on hand. If you can take it out of storage, hook it up, and start playing within 2 minutes, generally that removes the friction you'd have and you'll actually play it. Flash carts are also a great "friction remover".
For those who like their old Game Boy, Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance, remember that the SNES had Super Game Boy/2, and the GameCube had the Game Boy Player (also supported GBA). There's a lot to be said for playing those handheld games on a TV, with a wireless Nintendo WaveBird controller.
Though for those chasing what's possible, those options exist too, but trade off that "pick-up-and-play" factor :)
An additional option is how I get RGB video and clean audio out of my HVC-101 without modifying the console itself:
https://krikzz.com/our-products/cartridges/rgb-blaster.html
It is a lot of work and usually not cheap to get old consoles to capture properly, so I am only bothering with Nintendo consoles as that is what my childhood was. At the time of writing, I have solutions to play games on original hardware from every console apart from the Nintendo 64 and Nintendo DS family. Not because it is not possible, but rather that I can not justify the expense at the moment.
I don't fully understand the video, so what it is lacks compare with the original hardware?
That would be cool... in 2001. After emulation and such, I had more interest on emulating old and weird hardware such as the WonderSwan, Pokémon MIni and Neo Geo Pocket.
... That wasn't as tiny as I expected it to be. It's more like a mini.
Yeah, a proper mini NES would just be a dongle that attached to a cartridge. It's not hard to make an NES equivalent. It's kinda weird that people want these "authentic" things, since you can emulate them in a toenail form factor. The people who think emulation or fpgas aren't good enough are dumb people.
It’s kinda awkward to make it smaller than the NES carts themselves :P
>Much that same as some people don’t like emulators because it isn’t as close to how real hardware plays.
Modern hardware is powerful enough to emulate it perfectly. It doesn't just get close, so I do not think this is a complaint based off of reality.
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