> Spreadsheet formulas can refer to rectangular ranges of arbitrary size. When a user changes the structure of a referenced table, the spreadsheet system updates the references to refer to a new range. Unfortunately, this new range may differ from the user's expectations, introducing bugs in spreadsheets. We describe a user study showing that standard reference semantics are error-prone
Yeah. It's a pet-peeve of mine: after having been tasked to port a spreadsheet to a dedicated app, I've lost all illusions about spreadsheets.
Or, put it like this: spreadsheets are for programmers. When a non-programmer uses a spreadsheet, it's full, full, full of broken assumptions.
The famous Excel vid by Joel Spolsky shows just that: it's ultra-powerful stuff, but you basically have to be a programmer to understand what's doable and how to use that power wisely (and Joel Spolsky is a programmer himself).
Users don't understand dates and the relation between values and the values at a certain date or the values at the date of encoding or the values when they're automatically fetched, for a start.
Then they have absolutely zero clue as how to model things crossing boundaries: for example something crossing a year boundary.
I could go on and on but it's just mind-boggling. Reunions discussing the spreadsheet with "the users" and asking questions and they're just lost: they don't get it. They don't understand what they've done. It's confusion everywhere (in their minds and in their spreadsheets).
The corporate world runs on Powerpoint presentation using bogus numbers from broken spreadsheets.
Now it's nice to see a system that tries to add some sanity to spreadsheets but I fear it's like "SVN trying to be CVS done right, but it's impossible to do CVS right" (paraphrasing Torvalds).
P.S: do I use spreadsheets? You bet I do, I'm a programmer.
In a way if people can’t yet use spreadsheets correctly (but they think they do) then it’s impossible to move them away.
Also the OP has much about the programmatic components, but Excel is also an interface. The front end of an unofficial corporate app. And people know (they think) how to use it.
I just listened to a demo of an insurance industry SaaS that isn’t yet public. Goal to move many things out of spreadsheets. Had AI agents built in and all sorts of bells and whistles. But the screens were chaos. I immediately thought it was just too “complicated” to switch a person off the busy/messy system they know - Excel.
My cynical mind think link you but also commes to the opposite conclusion.
Everyone will be writing apps.
Almost every app will be as janky as possible and people will just take the jank as the normal thing and get used to it and working around it, just like they did when every company started using electron and fake mobile apps that are wrapped buggy webpages.
With fast updates that changes every feature across updates, breaking everything and people accepting as the norm.
It's already happening:
- you can see Show HN post making it to the front page full vibecoded with as much jank as possible and the all the comments praising it and not questionning all the jank.
- I've seen it in some popular open source projects when after updates existing feature started to break constantly. The whole thing is ai coded up to the handling of bug reports and feature request and have Claude as co-commiter. I've looked in the internet to see the perception no one is complaining about it
- same at work, managers accepting slop AI solutions that are wrong at so many levels simply because it's fast and complain about the symptoms months down the line without questionning the AI part.
> Spreadsheet formulas can refer to rectangular ranges of arbitrary size. When a user changes the structure of a referenced table, the spreadsheet system updates the references to refer to a new range. Unfortunately, this new range may differ from the user's expectations, introducing bugs in spreadsheets. We describe a user study showing that standard reference semantics are error-prone
Yeah. It's a pet-peeve of mine: after having been tasked to port a spreadsheet to a dedicated app, I've lost all illusions about spreadsheets.
Or, put it like this: spreadsheets are for programmers. When a non-programmer uses a spreadsheet, it's full, full, full of broken assumptions.
The famous Excel vid by Joel Spolsky shows just that: it's ultra-powerful stuff, but you basically have to be a programmer to understand what's doable and how to use that power wisely (and Joel Spolsky is a programmer himself).
Users don't understand dates and the relation between values and the values at a certain date or the values at the date of encoding or the values when they're automatically fetched, for a start.
Then they have absolutely zero clue as how to model things crossing boundaries: for example something crossing a year boundary.
I could go on and on but it's just mind-boggling. Reunions discussing the spreadsheet with "the users" and asking questions and they're just lost: they don't get it. They don't understand what they've done. It's confusion everywhere (in their minds and in their spreadsheets).
The corporate world runs on Powerpoint presentation using bogus numbers from broken spreadsheets.
Now it's nice to see a system that tries to add some sanity to spreadsheets but I fear it's like "SVN trying to be CVS done right, but it's impossible to do CVS right" (paraphrasing Torvalds).
P.S: do I use spreadsheets? You bet I do, I'm a programmer.
Everything you said is why I don’t agree with the idea that “everyone will be writing their own apps.”
Can’t wait for a world full of apps as janky as most spreadsheets (or Access or FileMaker databases)
In a way if people can’t yet use spreadsheets correctly (but they think they do) then it’s impossible to move them away.
Also the OP has much about the programmatic components, but Excel is also an interface. The front end of an unofficial corporate app. And people know (they think) how to use it.
I just listened to a demo of an insurance industry SaaS that isn’t yet public. Goal to move many things out of spreadsheets. Had AI agents built in and all sorts of bells and whistles. But the screens were chaos. I immediately thought it was just too “complicated” to switch a person off the busy/messy system they know - Excel.
My cynical mind think link you but also commes to the opposite conclusion.
Everyone will be writing apps. Almost every app will be as janky as possible and people will just take the jank as the normal thing and get used to it and working around it, just like they did when every company started using electron and fake mobile apps that are wrapped buggy webpages.
With fast updates that changes every feature across updates, breaking everything and people accepting as the norm.
It's already happening:
- you can see Show HN post making it to the front page full vibecoded with as much jank as possible and the all the comments praising it and not questionning all the jank.
- I've seen it in some popular open source projects when after updates existing feature started to break constantly. The whole thing is ai coded up to the handling of bug reports and feature request and have Claude as co-commiter. I've looked in the internet to see the perception no one is complaining about it
- same at work, managers accepting slop AI solutions that are wrong at so many levels simply because it's fast and complain about the symptoms months down the line without questionning the AI part.