I recently tried "ChoViva" it's a chocolate substitute made from sunflower seeds. Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant. They process the sunflower seeds in a way that achieves a taste and texture very close to chocolate. In a way, I prefer it over chocolate because it has no caffeine and has a slightly compacter texture that does not stick around in the mouth for so long. Really interesting. ChoViva is just the brand. They only do B2B so it is used as part of the supply chain for sweets like peanut butter cups.
Coffee has very similar processing to chocolate, can produce similar flavours with the right amount of roasting, but is not even close to the same thing due to the dramatically different fat content (both quantity and type of fat).
There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.
80% alike is to my mind dramatically different and would not be a substitute at all. I also don't think 95% cocoa chocolate is a substitute for 80% cocoa chocolate etc. as even the small difference results in a dramatically different product and that's the simplest variation possible for chocolate.
Ive heard of this method over here in Europe some years ago, though do not know if these process gained any traction regarding regular bought food brands?
Cacao trees are the most difficult plant I have grown, they are much more finicky than many others, and I almost only grow tropical or subtropical plants (in a temperate climate, in France and now Belgium).
I don't know which climate this gentleman lives in, but winter in France has been fatal to several of my trees simply because of the reduced ambient humidity due to needing heating in the house. None have survived more than three years.
Can I just add that this commercial website is great. It's informative. It has lots of information. It's very clear to read. And the blog just breathes loving the product.
Until I saw this I was wondering where Switzerland and Belgium got there cocoa from, because I have never seen a tree growing in either country, and one is always hearing about Swiss and Belgium chocolate.
“For most people, tulips, windmills, and bike lanes spring to mind when they think of the Netherlands. But most people would be surprised to learn that the Netherlands ranks first in the world as an exporter of cocoa products, recently overtaking neighboring Germany.
The Netherlands recorded cocoa exports of 12.4 billion euros in 2025”
I would guess that’s a holdout from colonial times. Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony up till world war two. Might even date back to when there was a Dutch colony in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil), but that page doesn’t mention cocoa, and I wouldn’t even know whether there was cocoa in Brazil at the time.
Well, the fruit is a lovely flavor. Once you learn that e.g. pomelo peel has a way to cook and be eaten, you realize the resourcefulness of our forebears and their quest for flavor and a full belly
I disagree. After drying for a few days they just taste like unsweetened chocolate to me. Very similar to the cacao nibs I used to purchase, which are indeed just broken up seeds.
Just for the record, Spain produces Cacao since 2022, with the first 70 Kg of fully European Cacao on 2023. Courtesy of some cunning and patient sapiens. And it only toke 100 years of work.
This is notable because it's in an unheated greenhouse. Lots of botanical gardens around the world, like the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens in NYC, have fruit-bearing cacao trees in their (heated) tropical rooms.
In greenhouses also in South of Spain. With climate change roaring, more places in the North will be able to culture that. It takes a lot of time to grow and some talent to obtain the fruit but it could be possible. I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
The tree can not stand long periods of temperatures below 15 Celsius.
> I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
It does not. Cacao beans/seeds taste utterly vile. You couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams that the chocolate you buy in stores comes from those disgusting things.
There was a cacao plantation on the side of the road that I walked past every day after school when I was between 5 and 14yrs old. I'd always pick a few on the way home to break open a pod and suck on the beans. But if you accidentally bit into one, well /* insert face vomiting emoji */
I've never managed to get them taller than 10 inches. And this last year, no leaves at all... the tap root would emerge, but something always kills it quickly. Though, to be fair, those were from a grocery store pod (I think they refrigerate them during transport).
I recently tried "ChoViva" it's a chocolate substitute made from sunflower seeds. Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant. They process the sunflower seeds in a way that achieves a taste and texture very close to chocolate. In a way, I prefer it over chocolate because it has no caffeine and has a slightly compacter texture that does not stick around in the mouth for so long. Really interesting. ChoViva is just the brand. They only do B2B so it is used as part of the supply chain for sweets like peanut butter cups.
Coffee has very similar processing to chocolate, can produce similar flavours with the right amount of roasting, but is not even close to the same thing due to the dramatically different fat content (both quantity and type of fat).
There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.
80% alike is to my mind dramatically different and would not be a substitute at all. I also don't think 95% cocoa chocolate is a substitute for 80% cocoa chocolate etc. as even the small difference results in a dramatically different product and that's the simplest variation possible for chocolate.
I was about to write s/caffeine/theobromine/ when I double-checked and learned that theobromine is a metabolite of caffeine. Mind blown.
This seems to be quite complicated! Was reading here https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Metabolism-of-caffeine-I... - > In humans, theobromine does not metabolize into caffeine, although the latter reaction occurs in young leaves of cacao plant.
Ive heard of this method over here in Europe some years ago, though do not know if these process gained any traction regarding regular bought food brands?
Cacao trees are the most difficult plant I have grown, they are much more finicky than many others, and I almost only grow tropical or subtropical plants (in a temperate climate, in France and now Belgium).
I don't know which climate this gentleman lives in, but winter in France has been fatal to several of my trees simply because of the reduced ambient humidity due to needing heating in the house. None have survived more than three years.
Can I just add that this commercial website is great. It's informative. It has lots of information. It's very clear to read. And the blog just breathes loving the product.
I just loved seeing the guy so happy in the pic. The man is enjoying his cocoa tree.
Perfectly readable without JS enabled too!
Until I saw this I was wondering where Switzerland and Belgium got there cocoa from, because I have never seen a tree growing in either country, and one is always hearing about Swiss and Belgium chocolate.
They source from all of the globe's cacao growing regions
More likely from an intermediary, possibly one from the Netherlands. https://www.expatrepublic.com/netherlands-largest-cocoa-expo...:
“For most people, tulips, windmills, and bike lanes spring to mind when they think of the Netherlands. But most people would be surprised to learn that the Netherlands ranks first in the world as an exporter of cocoa products, recently overtaking neighboring Germany.
The Netherlands recorded cocoa exports of 12.4 billion euros in 2025”
I would guess that’s a holdout from colonial times. Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony up till world war two. Might even date back to when there was a Dutch colony in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil), but that page doesn’t mention cocoa, and I wouldn’t even know whether there was cocoa in Brazil at the time.
Then should it not be Ghanaian chocolate rather than Swiss?
Chocolate is a product made with cacao and other ingredients. But the best manufacturers declare the origin of their beans, which might be Ghana.
There is significant processing required to go from cacao to chocolate.
Then most of global products are made in China, including many Swiss Made (TM) or US made.
Ah yes, just like every battery is from Congo because of the cobalt ?
I love chocolate.
But man some some times I wonder how desperately hungry were the people who made something edible out of the cocoa tree.
I wouldn't have assumed they were desperately hungry. Maybe they were bored of eating the same thing every day and looking for some novelty.
Well, the fruit is a lovely flavor. Once you learn that e.g. pomelo peel has a way to cook and be eaten, you realize the resourcefulness of our forebears and their quest for flavor and a full belly
It really is an amazing flavour but so incredibly frustrating to eat due to how little there is of it!
(I’m talking about the pulp around the seeds, not the flesh right under the skin of the pod, which I’ve never tried eating)
Cacao are OK to suck on (to get the pulp around the seeds), but the seeds themselves taste utterly vile.
I disagree. After drying for a few days they just taste like unsweetened chocolate to me. Very similar to the cacao nibs I used to purchase, which are indeed just broken up seeds.
Most seeds dont taste good unless they are processed right?
Matter of taste. I like eating cocoa beans. Oddly, I cannot stand the smell of coffee.
Just for the record, Spain produces Cacao since 2022, with the first 70 Kg of fully European Cacao on 2023. Courtesy of some cunning and patient sapiens. And it only toke 100 years of work.
This is notable because it's in an unheated greenhouse. Lots of botanical gardens around the world, like the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens in NYC, have fruit-bearing cacao trees in their (heated) tropical rooms.
In greenhouses also in South of Spain. With climate change roaring, more places in the North will be able to culture that. It takes a lot of time to grow and some talent to obtain the fruit but it could be possible. I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
The tree can not stand long periods of temperatures below 15 Celsius.
> I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
That's like assuming pure hydrogen tastes better than the oxidized stuff in water.
The only part of the fruit you’d eat unprocessed is the pulp around the seeds. It’s pretty nice, but nothing extraordinary.
I don’t think anyone uses cacao seeds for anything except for processing.
> I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
It does not. Cacao beans/seeds taste utterly vile. You couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams that the chocolate you buy in stores comes from those disgusting things.
There was a cacao plantation on the side of the road that I walked past every day after school when I was between 5 and 14yrs old. I'd always pick a few on the way home to break open a pod and suck on the beans. But if you accidentally bit into one, well /* insert face vomiting emoji */
I've never managed to get them taller than 10 inches. And this last year, no leaves at all... the tap root would emerge, but something always kills it quickly. Though, to be fair, those were from a grocery store pod (I think they refrigerate them during transport).